Will there be a Sport version of Model 3?

[Torpedo Ted]

I sold my P85D because it's too big and expensive for my use. I loved the performance though, and I'm not sure I'm willing to upgrade my current $3000 car for anything, unless it offers as much fun as I had in my P85D. So I'm hoping the Model 3 will come in a performance version...

What do you think?

1) Will Model 3 come in a performance version from the start?
2) How quick 0-60?
3) Dual Motor?
4) What price?

Let's speculate!

 

[Tesloid]

I sold my P85D because it's too big and expensive for my use. I loved the performance though, and I'm not sure I'm willing to upgrade my current $3000 car for anything, unless it offers as much fun as I had in my P85D. So I'm hoping the Model 3 will come in a performance version...

What do you think?

1) Will Model 3 come in a performance version from the start?
2) How quick 0-60?
3) Dual Motor?
4) What price?

Let's speculate!

Speculating:

1) Yes
2) 3.1s with Ludicrous Mode
3) Yes
4) $60,000+ Base price for PxxDL

The PxxD without Ludicrous package will be $50,000+ Base price - 0 to 60mph @ 3.5s

 

[EinSV]

Speculating:

1) Yes
2) 3.1s with Ludicrous Mode
3) Yes
4) $60,000+ Base price for PxxDL

This all sounds right to me except:

2) 2.5s with Ludicrous

Given the size/weight advantage of the M3 v S this is easily achievable. I think Elon will not hold back performance just to maintain S superiority.

 

[malcolm]

Yes. Tesla's mission is to embarrass other car makers into taking the electric drivetrain seriously.

Nothing says "you people don't know what you're doing" more than a mid range vehicle that blows away their big hitters.

We've seen the S achieve something similar already. Model 3 should be a further twist of the knife.

 

[jbcarioca]

We all need to remember that the Model 3 is baselined with the BMW 3 series, although JB, at least, compares the size to the A4.

If the performance version is to be compared to the 3 series it will be the M3, which has base MSRP of $63,500 and $99,675 loaded.
Therefore:
1) there will be a PxxD from the start;
2) 0-60 <4sec, probably not less than the SP90D, so say 3.3 sec but when the S comes with about 110 or so and even quicker times, so will the 3, maybe even prior to actual customer configurations.
3) No question D
4) Base for 3PxxD $65,000, loaded $100,000

 

[Carl Leermakers]

Yes. Tesla's mission is to embarrass other car makers into taking the electric drivetrain seriously.

Nothing says "you people don't know what you're doing" more than a mid range vehicle that blows away their big hitters.

We've seen the S achieve something similar already. Model 3 should be a further twist of the knife.

So true. Imagine a 60,000$ car, let alone a sedan seating five, doing 2.5s on 0-60.

Come to think of it: 3.1s would probably work just as well . But for sure Tesla needs an "M3-killer" version of its M3

 

[Tesloid]

This all sounds right to me except:

2) 2.5s with Ludicrous

Given the size/weight advantage of the M3 v S this is easily achievable. I think Elon will not hold back performance just to maintain S superiority.

Well, the main constraint to performance with Tesla cars is not the weight of size. Their drivetrains are advanced enough that the bottleneck now is the amount of power that can safely be drawn out of the batteries without overheating them. The larger the battery capacity, the higher the maximum current draw rating of the pack. That directly translates to better performance.


So, if Tesla uses a 70kWh pack for the Performance model, I highly doubt they can squeeze enough juice to push 2.5s runs. If they ever manage to get a 3P90DL version made, that would definitely push 2.5s or better.

So true. Imagine a 60,000$ car, let alone a sedan seating five, doing 2.5s on 0-60.

Come to think of it: 3.1s would probably work just as well . But for sure Tesla needs an "M3-killer" version of its M3

BMW M3 does 0 to 60 in 3.9s. If a PxxDL can do it in 3.1s, it is already an M3 killer by a huge margin. 0.8s in a sub 3s context is total destruction.

 

[nwdiver]

So, if Tesla uses a 70kWh pack for the Performance model, I highly doubt they can squeeze enough juice to push 2.5s runs. If they ever manage to get a 3P90DL version made, that would definitely push 2.5s or better.

Maybe some of that 'new tech' in the 3 will be some capacitors to give it some extra kick...

 

[Tesloid]

Maybe some of that 'new tech' in the 3 will be some capacitors to give it some extra kick...

Iirc, Elon Musk's project in college was on the use of super capacitors in EVs. I'm sure he would have already used that technique if it had any real merit in a mass produced EV.

 

[EinSV]

Well, the main constraint to performance with Tesla cars is not the weight of size. Their drivetrains are advanced enough that the bottleneck now is the amount of power that can safely be drawn out of the batteries without overheating them. The larger the battery capacity, the higher the maximum current draw rating of the pack. That directly translates to better performance.

So, if Tesla uses a 70kWh pack for the Performance model, I highly doubt they can squeeze enough juice to push 2.5s runs. If they ever manage to get a 3P90DL version made, that would definitely push 2.5s or better.

I am guessing that by the time the M3 is launched at least a P100D version of the S and X will be available (and recent reports suggest this may be coming sooner rather than later). If that's the case it seems likely the 3 will come in ~60kWh and 80kWh versions. A P85D Model S without Ludicrous could do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. I see no barrier to a much lighter P80D Model 3 with Ludicrous doing well below 3.0s. And once the GF comes on line it seems like it will only be a matter of time before a P90DL 3 Model comes out that could have McLaren P1s/Bugattis/LaFerraris running scared, before the next-Gen Roadster puts them in its rearview mirror. :smile:

Tesla's ability to rapldly innovate also has to be taken into account. A 2013 P85 could do 0-60 in 4.4 seconds -- which was considered by most car mags to be very impressive at the time. Who would have guessed that only two years later, with only a slightly larger battery, a P90DL could cover the same ground in a ridiculous 2.8 seconds? You are right that even 3.1s would blow away the competition, but Tesla had no hesitation to introduce Ludicrous even when they were already blowing away the competition, and, even though, as Elon said, no customers were asking for more speed because it was "too ludicrous."

Anyway, fun to speculate! Looking forward to watching it all unfold over the next couple years. :smile:

 

[shrspeedblade]

If you think 0-60 (the automotive equivalent of a male enhancement pill) is the most important thing for the Model 3 to compete you're kind of missing the point of the BMW M3. Handling, steering feel, balance, braking, need I go on?

There are a lot of cars out there with impressive 0-60 time than I wouldn't want to own/drive every day.

 

[Tesloid]

If you think 0-60 (the automotive equivalent of a male enhancement pill) is the most important thing for the Model 3 to compete you're kind of missing the point of the BMW M3. Handling, steering feel, balance, braking, need I go on?

There are a lot of cars out there with impressive 0-60 time than I wouldn't want to own/drive every day.

A Tesla Model S handles way better than a BMW 7 series vehicle, while providing more room. It's because of the low CG skate board design and dynamic torque vectoring Tesla uses. There is absolutely no reason why the Model 3 won't handle better than a BMW 3 series vehicle, while lower CG & torque vectoring properties are still factors of distinction in comparison.

I am guessing that by the time the M3 is launched at least a P100D version of the S and X will be available (and recent reports suggest this may be coming sooner rather than later). If that's the case it seems likely the 3 will come in ~60kWh and 80kWh versions. A P85D Model S without Ludicrous could do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. I see no barrier to a much lighter P80D Model 3 with Ludicrous doing well below 3.0s. And once the GF comes on line it seems like it will only be a matter of time before a P90DL 3 Model comes out that could have McLaren P1s/Bugattis/LaFerraris running scared, before the next-Gen Roadster puts them in its rearview mirror. :smile:

Tesla's ability to rapldly innovate also has to be taken into account. A 2013 P85 could do 0-60 in 4.4 seconds -- which was considered by most car mags to be very impressive at the time. Who would have guessed that only two years later, with only a slightly larger battery, a P90DL could cover the same ground in a ridiculous 2.8 seconds? You are right that even 3.1s would blow away the competition, but Tesla had no hesitation to introduce Ludicrous even when they were already blowing away the competition, and, even though, as Elon said, no customers were asking for more speed because it was "too ludicrous."

Anyway, fun to speculate! Looking forward to watching it all unfold over the next couple years. :smile:

Rate of increase in performance is not linear over extended periods. Innovation in engineered products plateaus out quickly, unless significant lateral shifts are made in the fundamental platform itself. For example, there is only so much improvement possible in Li-ion chemistry, before Graphene chemistry (or other storage chemistries) has to take over from the Li-ion plateau.

 

[malcolm]

And obviously as Tesla claims more top stats the industry will respond with: "Yes, but driving is really all about..."

Acceleration - EVs win this one
Lower cost: Model 3 is a big step in this direction.
Range: Work in progress.
Recharging: Misinformation still claims the prize for gas (and in 20 years, Hydrogen)

Handling: EVs have low CoG but high mass: ICE cars only ahead because they are Big Auto's Cash Cow/Known tech/Last Stand.

But as Autopilot tech moves forward, "handling" becomes part of "manual mode"; right up there with double declutching and other archaisms.

 

[Candleflame]

yeah its sort of funny how in the EV world everyone is obsessed with 0-60 times. However, look at any report/review of sports cars and the 0-60 is actually rarely talked about. It's more about the driving experience and handling.

In touring races the 0-60 time isn't all that important anyways. There has been a shootout of a BMW M5 2014 with track package and a BMW 320 from 1988 and the BMW 320 is only sufering a narrow loss.

 

[tga]

In touring races the 0-60 time isn't all that important anyways. There has been a shootout of a BMW M5 2014 with track package and a BMW 320 from 1988 and the BMW 320 is only sufering a narrow loss.

Well, that's because the E30 is a lightweight, nimble car, and the 5 series is a fat, wallowing pig - the track package is just the optional lipstick on said pig. :tongue:

And yes, there will be a sport package, or P version - Why pass up the $?

 

[wallet.dat]

0-60 is irrelevant in any type of racing that I'm aware of. I don't expect the Tesla M3 to be able to beat a BMW M3 in any form of sanctioned motorsport, but when it comes to magazine articles and stat sheets, that's where the Tesla M3 should be able to hold it's own, and even score better than the BMW in a number of metrics.

 

[ikjadoon]

Dual motors? Really? On a sedan? Why is everyone so confident about that? Have I missed something?

 

[ecarfan]

Dual motors? Really? On a sedan? Why is everyone so confident about that? Have I missed something?

Not sure if you are serious or not, but...the Model S is a sedan and many are purchased with dual motors...okay I guess you were making a joke...

 

[ratsbew]

Yes. Tesla's mission is to embarrass other car makers into taking the electric drivetrain seriously.

Nothing says "you people don't know what you're doing" more than a mid range vehicle that blows away their big hitters.

We've seen the S achieve something similar already. Model 3 should be a further twist of the knife.

Yes! If Tesla can execute this, I think the Model 3 will be a huge wakeup call. The big 3 will be crapping their britches on April 1st when they realize they've been fooled.

 

[infeza]

My Guesses:

1) Will Model 3 come in a performance version from the start?
Yes
2) How quick 0-60?
5 seconds with dual motor, 4 Seconds with P60D or similar.
3) Dual Motor?
Upgrade I hope!
4) What price?
$10k+ for Dual Motor, $20k+ for Performance