Winter Driving Experiences

[ModelS1079]

I'm really sad to read all this. I wanted the S to be my only car, but it looks like it can't be. I don't know what to do now when that finalize button appears.

Maybe this will help (forgive the cross post from driving in Snow thread):
Extensive drive in heavy snowstorm tonight. In contrast to above stories, Model S performed very well. Not like AWD, but fearlessly climbed steep snow-covered hills, gracefuly eased down an off-ramp that was fish-tailed and spun-out by a pick-up truck in front of me. Agree with left side window fog issue, perhaps a bit of left winshield (just bought Invisible Window - will report back after I apply it). Elwood (my Model S) has trouble at times with a fast start on snow, but can start slowly no problem and reaches great stablity once moving. 5K Lbs takes a bit of work to get moving in snow, I would guess. Regen braking worked perfectly to control the car. ABS perfect. Traction control seemed effective. So score this one a 9.0 of 10 in snow. My wife, in an AWD highlander behind me, had more trouble. And, finally, note I have all-season, not snow tires.

 

[Zas]

I don't think the mobile app will rely on our cars being plugged in. That wouldn't solve the overall problem.

Hey Jgdixon...No, i meant that the energy over-usage problem would only be solved if the cars were plugged in when using the phone app. Otherwise, if you preheat the car ( unplugged ) just before your leaving work to go home, it will still draw a lot of energy to heat your battery pack, and thereby reduce your overall mileage.

 

[Doug_G]

So my road trip turned into the slush trip from hell - started snowing and the conditions got to be awful. I have to say the Model S worked extremely well in lousy highway driving conditions. It was actually doing very well compared to other cars around me, some of which were clearly struggling to stay straight.

So I think my main complaint is overly aggressive TC at very slow speeds. Other than that the car is doing pretty well in snow and ice. The TC definitely needs a tweak, though, in low speed / very low grip conditions.

As for the fogging, the side window is definitely a major annoyance below -10C, especially if Range mode is operating. Under those conditions the side window frosts over progressively until you can't see anything. I had to stop and buy a small ice scraper. Above -5C the thing stayed completely clear. The windshield fogging on the left side is merely an annoyance, but it's pretty silly to have the passenger side completely clear... come to think of it the passenger side window isn't nearly as bad for fogging. Something isn't balanced properly.

 

[mknox]

So I think my main complaint is overly aggressive TC at very slow speeds. Other than that the car is doing pretty well in snow and ice. The TC definitely needs a tweak, though, in low speed / very low grip conditions.

Does the TC limit the "throttle" as well as pinch the brakes? I've had cars in the past where the TC just pinches the brakes, which can overheat the brakes (and shut off TC) if used a lot. My current car reduces power as well as pinching the brakes.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for posting that video and review. Very helpful. I see also that your wipers turned on when you opened the door. Did you hear any snapping or cracking of ice that might had been adherent to the wipers?

That single wipe upon opening the door needs to be dealt with. My wife's car this AM had enough snow on the windshield and hood that the wipers would not have been able to move (I cleaned the area of snow first).

 

[Zapped]

I notice today that the recirc air. was set instead of outside air. Just realized that might have switched on at the same time when the front window defrost was set. I'll check tomorrow.
Recirc air would cause fogging or may it's just all the excited heavy breathing from driving this fantastic car.:wink:

 

[EchoDelta]

Perhaps a Winter / Summer mode on the TC would help with winter driving.
Winter mode could have a less aggressive / responsive accelerator pedal ; Regen could be reduce to avoid what feels like the rear wheels locking up briefly when driving on snow.
I've noticed when I remove my foot off the accelerator quickly and the Regen jumps to 30 kW.
The newer BMW's have a number of different driving modes available.

Agree. I am sure Tesla wonks will figure out the right combination of approaches to make the model S a great snow handler. A mode selector isn't bad- autodetection is good but a manual selection sets your expectations as a driver which is always good IMO.
I liked the explicit sunmer/winter mode in my MB and it made a difference in the driving experience. Plus you get an extra grin that day you switch it to summer mode.

 

[Brian H]

... Wouldn't it be cool if we could add a battery instead of sand bags back there to simultaneously deal with winter hill climbing, reduced cold weather range, and battery warming challenges. Lastly has anyone tested the studded tires yet in slippery uphill conditions?

A couple of supplementary lead acid 12-Volts?

 

[Brian H]

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Did you plug it in? So what happened??????

RTWT
He plugged in but neglected to push the charger 'start' button, so got nada. Drove home carefully on his residue from the drive there. Made it with 5-7 miles remaining.

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[Brian H]

...

He has the 19 inches wheels

A few bugs:

- Major frosting in the driver window (not in the passenger window -- strange)
...

Perspective: even 19" wheels are rather wide by normal standards, not ideal for winter traction.

Suggestion: block or partly block passenger window vents, see if that sends more air to driver side?

 

[Johan]

Wow, I must say that between following this thread and the other threads on winter driving and on loss of charge in the cold etc. I have been going back and forth between reassurance, despair and then hope again in the last few days. This coming from someone who in the last weeks some days had to go out and clear my steep 50 meter uphill driveway twice daily (with a snow blower!) due to heavy snowing. Makes you think about getting a new in in some ways still unproven car, RWD at that. When I do get my S (I still think "when" not "if") it will be spring/summer and great driving conditions, but for sure there will be another winter in about a year

One thing that I'm quite convinced of though: tires are more important that most people may think. I don't want to bad-mouth a tire I really don't know much about - Tesla's choice: The Pirelli Zottozero. However, I can assure you that very few cars in Norway are wearing these tires for the winter. In Norway it's still pretty common with studded tires, but the trends is moving quickly towards less of this. Still no bans, but some hefty fees to drive in to large cities with these on. In a few years I think studs will be banned many places due to road damage and health/lung effects. I also agree with Jerry33 that with proper driving there are maybe only a few days a year where studs give you and advantage. And when it comes to studless winter tires the best are, and have been for years, the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R. They win the tests year after year. I wouldn't put another winter tire on my car. I would be disappointed if Tesla didn't offer a set of 19" with these on for purchase together with the car (as wheels bought at the same time as the car will be excempt from taxes and import duties, just as EV's as a whole is here).

Runners up in the 2012 tests were Continental ContiViking Contact 5, Dunlop SP Ice Sport, Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice and Michelin X-Ice.

The Pirelli (not Zottozero though but "Icecontrol Winter") and the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 did still a bit worse in testing this year.

All season tires you can just forget. Worst of both worlds. Poor in the winter and sometimes outright dangerous in the summer (rainy conditions).

 

[Brian H]

...
All season tires you can just forget. Worst of both worlds. Poor in the winter and sometimes outright dangerous in the summer (rainy conditions).

Hear, Hear!
They should be called "No-Seasons".

 

[jkirkebo]

That single wipe upon opening the door needs to be dealt with. My wife's car this AM had enough snow on the windshield and hood that the wipers would not have been able to move (I cleaned the area of snow first).

Yeah, that one's easy to fix: Do the wipe after the car "starts", iow butt in seat, door closed and foot on brake.

 

[dsm363]

People seem to be reporting vastly different experiences from horrible in the snow to pretty good but needs TC refined so maybe this has more to do with expectations of the person driving than anything. Definitely sounds like work needs to be done with the fogging issue and a snow mode on the TC but with the right tires, maybe the Model S will work fine for all but the worst winter conditions.

 

[pbrulott]

So I think my main complaint is overly aggressive TC at very slow speeds. Other than that the car is doing pretty well in snow and ice. The TC definitely needs a tweak, though, in low speed / very low grip conditions.

That is my fear Doug, my driveway is steep and I don't have long enough to gain speed. So if the TC is too strong and the wheels simply stop partway, I won't get up as my driveway gets packed with snow most of the winter. That'd be a deal breaker for me. Can't imagine my wife stuck there in the morning with a 5K lbs baby.

I am lucky enough to have a current owner that will come next week to try it out in order to test 1) Getting out of the driveway and 2) front nose low ground clearance with a very tight turning radius. If and only if those 2 issues are cleared AND I feel TM is officially willing to improve the winter/cold experience of the car then will proceed with my purchase. Sadly, too many oversights for me at this point.

 

[dsm363]

Just read about this
ClearZone Snow Melting Heat Cable for Radiant Heated Driveway Systems

If it works and I was redoing my driveway, might be worth it.

 

[Brian H]

Just read about this
ClearZone Snow Melting Heat Cable for Radiant Heated Driveway Systems

If it works and I was redoing my driveway, might be worth it.

Still possible:

The system can also be installed in existing asphalt driveways by placing the cable on top of the old asphalt and then installing a new layer of asphalt on top of that. (The photo on the bottom left shows a runaway truck ramp being retrofitted with a radiant snow melting system, using saw-cut technology.)
When installing in saw-cut grooves, ClearZone radiant heat cable is laid into the grooves and then sealed with an epoxy topcoat. For additional traction to increase safety, a sand broadcast can be applied to the surface before the epoxy cures if desiredThe system can also be installed in existing asphalt driveways by placing the cable on top of the old asphalt and then installing a new layer of asphalt on top of that. (The photo on the bottom left shows a runaway truck ramp being retrofitted with a radiant snow melting system, using saw-cut technology.)
When installing in saw-cut grooves, ClearZone radiant heat cable is laid into the grooves and then sealed with an epoxy topcoat. For additional traction to increase safety, a sand broadcast can be applied to the surface before the epoxy cures if desired

 

[Brian H]

...
Speaking of which: If I take delivery at my service center (which will be open when I get the S) will 4 snow tires attached to wheels fit in the back of the S with the rear seats down so I can get them home after delivery?

Yes, someone reported taking home "loaded" wheels from his delivery. Probably room for a bike and skis and a TV and small refrigerator, as well. :wink:

 

[Al Sherman]

Agreed. I was very encouraged by ModelS1079's post above. I admit that I'm old and not a very confident Winter driver. BUT, I'm retired and have the ability to stay home when there are bad conditions. I have been concerned about the bad reports and feel a lot better after seeing a good report from a historically objective forum member.
Speaking of which: If I take delivery at my service center (which will be open when I get the S) will 4 snow tires attached to wheels fit in the back of the S with the rear seats down so I can get them home after delivery?

- - - Updated - - -

Just read about this
ClearZone Snow Melting Heat Cable for Radiant Heated Driveway Systems

If it works and I was redoing my driveway, might be worth it.

We are getting a quote on redoing our driveway with heat. I'll post the details with the heating part broken down after I get it.

 

[dsm363]

Agreed. I was very encouraged by ModelS1079's post above. I admit that I'm old and not a very confident Winter driver. BUT, I'm retired and have the ability to stay home when there are bad conditions. I have been concerned about the bad reports and feel a lot better after seeing a good report from a historically objective forum member.
Speaking of which: If I take delivery at my service center (which will be open when I get the S) will 4 snow tires attached to wheels fit in the back of the S with the rear seats down so I can get them home after delivery?

4 tires should easily fit with the rear seats folded down. I have 4 21" Tesla rims/tires out of the car so can see if they fit later to be sure. Indy Tire sells the Nokian Rs if you are going to buy just the 19" rims from Tesla.

 

[Doug_G]

Does the TC limit the "throttle" as well as pinch the brakes? I've had cars in the past where the TC just pinches the brakes, which can overheat the brakes (and shut off TC) if used a lot. My current car reduces power as well as pinching the brakes.

TC uses throttle control. Stability control and ABS uses the brakes.

People seem to be reporting vastly different experiences from horrible in the snow to pretty good but needs TC refined so maybe this has more to do with expectations of the person driving than anything. Definitely sounds like work needs to be done with the fogging issue and a snow mode on the TC but with the right tires, maybe the Model S will work fine for all but the worst winter conditions.

Honestly I myself have reportd both pretty good and bad experiences, in different circumstances. I think there's really only one weak point and I think it can be fixed by an adjustment to the TC algorithms, maybe including an explicit "snow mode".

That is my fear Doug, my driveway is steep and I don't have long enough to gain speed. So if the TC is too strong and the wheels simply stop partway, I won't get up as my driveway gets packed with snow most of the winter. That'd be a deal breaker for me. Can't imagine my wife stuck there in the morning with a 5K lbs baby.

I am lucky enough to have a current owner that will come next week to try it out in order to test 1) Getting out of the driveway and 2) front nose low ground clearance with a very tight turning radius. If and only if those 2 issues are cleared AND I feel TM is officially willing to improve the winter/cold experience of the car then will proceed with my purchase. Sadly, too many oversights for me at this point.

The one time I got stuck on ice I just had to get a very small amount of motion going and it slogged through slowly. If you leave your garage with any speed at all it should continue to climb. And don't forget about the air suspension - I've used it a few times now to good effect. "Instant crossover SUV".

Speaking of which: If I take delivery at my service center (which will be open when I get the S) will 4 snow tires attached to wheels fit in the back of the S with the rear seats down so I can get them home after delivery?

Yes. I drove home with the summer wheels in the back. They fit easily.