Winter Driving Experiences

[Johan]

Its feels just like down-shifting, it feels like a controlled slowdown , not anything dangerous.

Cool, thanks! I'm not very used to driving RWD cars, have had mostly FWD or AWD (Volvo XC70). With FWD you're getting the downshift/engine braking on the front wheels, where you mostly want it for steering/control. I suppose the friction brakes on the Model S put most of their stopping power on the front wheels as well? Glad to hear you're not having the "hand brake experience" though! Maybe it has to do with the weight and how it's distributed in the Model S...

 

[PatP]

For those with delivered cars, can you verify the presence or lack of a defroster vent on the A pillar? It can be seen in the attached photo from the official Design Studio. Upper left corner on the pillar next to the side window.

No vent on mine.

 

[mknox]

That actually works very well. If the car starts to understeer (front wheels sliding resulting in larger turn radius than intended), simply backing off the accelerator a little pulls the nose in. It doesn't put any braking load on the already-sliding front wheels, which would make the traction situation even worse, yet slows the car down nicely allowing the fronts to regain traction.

I would imagine that takes some careful modulation. Years ago, friends and I would play around in empty, snowy parking lots pulling on the hand brake (rear wheels) and have fun as the car spun out!

My worry is that I may some day back off on the "gas" too quickly and put myself into a spin...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

With regards to the traction problems, could this be because the electric motor is too powerful and overwhelming the tires? The Model S Performance motor generates 443 lb-ft of torque, which is significantly more than the Roadster from what I can remember.

Any difference in traction issues between Performance and non-Performance models?

This sounds like a problem in the traction control firmware, or the tires. Perhaps a bit of both?

This was almost to be expected with the frameless windows Tesla chose to go with. I have found from past experience that frameless windows look nice, but are prone to problems like this and eventually to wind noise when the seals start to age. I wonder why Tesla chose this design?

Frameless windows supposedly save weight. This is the biggest rationale I can think of where the Model S is concerned.

Subaru used to have frameless windows on all their vehicles, but they've dropped this in recent years. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has to do with reducing NVH, as well as mollifying Consumer Reports, which has historically complained that the frameless windows were easy for people to hit themselves with (glass not as easy to see as a frame).

 

[AndyM]

Been foggy & cold up in the Rockies; reminds me of the St.Lawrence Valley.

Love the pic of the dog with the Model S. That should get an award. Send it to [email protected]?

 

[PatP]

With regards to the traction problems, could this be because the electric motor is too powerful and overwhelming the tires? The Model S Performance motor generates 443 lb-ft of torque, which is significantly more than the Roadster from what I can remember.

Any difference in traction issues between Performance and non-Performance models?

This sounds like a problem in the traction control firmware, or the tires. Perhaps a bit of both?


Frameless windows supposedly save weight. This is the biggest rationale I can think of where the Model S is concerned.

Subaru used to have frameless windows on all their vehicles, but they've dropped this in recent years. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has to do with reducing NVH, as well as mollifying Consumer Reports, which has historically complained that the frameless windows were easy for people to hit themselves with (glass not as easy to see as a frame).

I think there maybe an issue with traction control firmware. It really feels different than on my Roadster. However, I added some +500 lbs (sand bags) in the trunk and the car is way better at climbing hills. Also, we HAVE to be able to drive using the "high" suspension setting. I don't care about aerodrag efficiency when fighting a snow storm...

 

[stenkb]

Well whatever the cause for poor winter traction - I sure hope Telsa fixes it and lets us know they fixed the issue......Looking at this finalize button for so long now, my will power to not click it is starting to fade.........

 

[Doug_G]

I would imagine that takes some careful modulation. Years ago, friends and I would play around in empty, snowy parking lots pulling on the hand brake (rear wheels) and have fun as the car spun out!

My worry is that I may some day back off on the "gas" too quickly and put myself into a spin...

That's not going to happen. Tesla puts TC on the regen as well as acceleration. Works great.

 

[stevezzzz]

For those with delivered cars, can you verify the presence or lack of a defroster vent on the A pillar? It can be seen in the attached photo from the official Design Studio. Upper left corner on the pillar next to the side window.

They're not present on my car, either.

 

[PatP]

Well whatever the cause for poor winter traction - I sure hope Telsa fixes it and lets us know they fixed the issue......Looking at this finalize button for so long now, my will power to not click it is starting to fade.........

You're very lucky as you have the opportunity not to click on "Finalize". I paid the sig premium and I would kill to be able to go back in time and not click "finalize". I would wait for a solution or the AWD version (although I'm not very confident there's one)

 

[ModelS8794]

You're very lucky as you have the opportunity not to click on "Finalize". I paid the sig premium and I would kill to be able to go back in time and not click "finalize". I would wait for a solution or the AWD version (although I'm not very confident there's one)

If you are really that unhappy you'll likely find a ready market for your car, perhaps even at a nice premium to your cost.

 

[M_Mike]

I know the MS is looked at by many as a "super car" able to leap tall buildings in a single bound however it is a rear wheel drive performance sedan - like every BMW I have ever owned. Rear wheel only drive cars do not perform very well in snow and ice - period. No "firmware" correction is going to fix this (maybe able to fine tune a bit) and traction control is only there to keep us from killing ourselves - it is not a 4WD button. I really don't understand why people are surprised that the car gets stuck on a snow covered hill or the traction control doesn't allow it to move very well in icey conditions or that a awd or fw drive car performs better in such conditions. If you live in a snowy climate and only have use of one car the S is not your best choice - not the car's fault. The car obviously has some legitimate winter concerns such as fogging, wipers, icing issues etc. but let's try to be realistic about what a heavy rear wheel drive performance sedan can do in the snow.

 

[Lyon]

I will call you tomorrow. You can delete your post. I noted your phone number.

Umm, you might want to delete if from your reply as well.

 

[PatP]

I understand. However, my Roadster which is RWD was much more decent. Also, I don't understand why people continue to say Model S performs well in harsh winter conditions. Model S isn't perfect.

 

[CurrieG]

I was driving my TESLA S in Toronto today in 15 cm (~ 6 inches) of snow with the snow tires on... I noticed it was more unstable than I expected. Only with a Little bit of acceleration it was sensitive to fish-tailing... I was OK as long as I went sloowly and accelerated very slowly. I also thought later it may have been better if I had raised the car to High Level.

The very odd thing I did notice, that may be related to the car bottom dagging in the snow at the standard height is that when I was in the deep snow my Energy Usage was VERY high often around 600 KWH! I wonder if the wheels were spinning or if the TC was working overtime? Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas?

 

[pbrulott]

Thanks PatP

@ M_Mike

I understand what you are saying but 1) we've heard so many times in these forums that Model S is weight balanced and has superior TC that will perform OK/better than oher RWD or FWD in snow/ice conditions and 2) about half of the adressable market for Model S (northern US, Canada, Northern Europe) have winter/snow/ice concerns

The list of needed improvement is not negligible... and legitimately suggests that winter/cold climate testing/design of the TMS should have been better. That is why I asked TM to come up with a communication plan and improvement plan on the matter

List:
-*** Warning for harsh winter climate buyers *** Real winter testing - Model S in its current version IS NOT suitable for places with heavy snow and hills
- Major fogging/frosting in the windshield / can’t get rid of it
- Side windows fogging and frosting => no side window vent/wrong design
- Frozen charger that can't open/gets stuck
- Frozen/Door window that don't close properly / without potentially breaking the door/window
- 120V outlet can't keep the charge and pack warm - conflicting info Doug_G at -5C and another post at -10C
- SOC dropping badly in cold climate 30 miles per day vs 3 in moderate temperature
- Wipers that can't retract
- MPGe double+ than EPA estimates: 450+ wh/km (650+ wh/mi) vs 200 (308)

- - - Updated - - -

@ CurrieG

see other thread, similar idea. seems you are not alone but should not see that for a long time.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/12169-Is-this-normal-Wh-km-literally-off-the-charts-!

 

[PatP]

I was driving my TESLA S in Toronto today in 15 cm (~ 6 inches) of snow with the snow tires on... I noticed it was more unstable than I expected. Only with a Little bit of acceleration it was sensitive to fish-tailing... I was OK as long as I went sloowly and accelerated very slowly. I also thought later it may have been better if I had raised the car to High Level.

The very odd thing I did notice, that may be related to the car bottom dagging in the snow at the standard height is that when I was in the deep snow my Energy Usage was VERY high often around 600 KWH! I wonder if the wheels were spinning or if the TC was working overtime? Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas?

Do you have a performance version? I'm trying to see if there's a link. Also if you raise the car to high, it will go down at a certain speed so it's useless for driving.

 

[Doug_G]

The very odd thing I did notice, that may be related to the car bottom dagging in the snow at the standard height is that when I was in the deep snow my Energy Usage was VERY high often around 600 KWH! I wonder if the wheels were spinning or if the TC was working overtime? Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas?

You could have two things going on there. If the pack was cold (regen limited) then the car may have been heating the pack. That takes a substantial amount of power. I've seen over 450 during the heating.

Also slogging through deep snow would indeed increase power consumption. The latter thing isn't an electric car thing - any car would do that. You just don't notice as much with a gas car because it doesn't tell you.

 

[CurrieG]

Do you have a performance version? I'm trying to see if there's a link. Also if you raise the car to high, it will go down at a certain speed so it's useless for driving.

Yes I have the Performance Model... I thought we could "Force" the higher hight when required... This needs to be fixed (Auto/Manual switch!)

Thanks!

 

[Doug_G]

- 120V outlet can't keep the charge and pack warm - conflicting info Doug_G at -5C and another post at -10C

This is a misunderstanding. A 120V outlet does not keep the pack warm if it is not charging. If it is charging then it can and does keep the pack warm.

My trick is to do most of my charging at work (we have a J1772), but to plug into 110V when I get home. That's just replacing the energy from the drive home, but 110V is so slow to charge that it's not finished by the next morning. While it's charging it does maintain the pack temperature - it needs to do that in order to charge.