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Wire size for wall charger
- Thread starter bbwex
- Start date
Article 100 combined with the manual of the evse (which lists the required breaker size for a certain output)
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Isn't the intended use listed by the manufacturer part of the UL listing and thus electrical code?
I'm not sure what you mean by "force of law". I don't think any of this is criminal law that could lead to jail time either way. But it could certainly impact civil law, liability, denied insurance claims?
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I mean, I don’t think so, and I can’t imagine any way by which one is related to the other.
Again, I can’t imagine any scenario where that would be the case. What I plug into a circuit has no bearing on whether or not that circuit is NEC compliant, and the idea of my insurance company denying a claim on that basis is even more absurd.
Anyway - I’m happy to be proven wrong if someone wants to explain code to me in an articulate and intelligent way. Qdeathstar’s dismissive pointing at an entire section of code without elaboration doesn’t count.
By that logic could I put a nema 14-50 wire myself on a wall connector and plug it in? Circuit is NEC compliant.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think insurance might try to deny a claim if equipment is hard wired installed against manufacturers instructions. I've seen insurance denied for what seems to me to be far less.
Happy to admit I'm not an expert with any of this so others should know more than me. Might take an insurance lawyer to know for sure.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think insurance might try to deny a claim if equipment is hard wired installed against manufacturers instructions. I've seen insurance denied for what seems to me to be far less.
Happy to admit I'm not an expert with any of this so others should know more than me. Might take an insurance lawyer to know for sure.
The manual clearly states. what breaker size to use.
You could read the NEC, or you could just accept what someone who is an expert in the field says (unless you have specific knowledge that the person is wrong, of course, we have all been wrong before). Do you ask a brain surgeon to elaborate on how specifics of the plan do the surgery?
NEC 110.3(B)
Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
Manufacturers usually supply installation instructions with equipment for use by general contractors, erectors, electrical contractors, electrical inspectors, and others concerned with an installation. It is important to follow the listing or labeling installation instructions.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I believe the installation instructions specify the minimum breaker size.
You just trim off a few of the strands and in slides right in*
*not actual events
From a physics/EE perspective, this would not cause any problems. I don't recommend it though.
I had a similar challenge with one of my installs. I used a 4 gauge wire just in case I installed an HPWC in the future. The 14-50 outlet was rated for a 6 gauge. It was a tight fit.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Seems to say you can go lower if power not available. Doesn't say you can't go higher.
This is exactly how I read it as well.
“If the electrical supply is unable to support 60a configuration, select the lower configuration”
This means, if your electrical supply can support 60a (100a circuit definitely can), you don’t need to select a lower configuration, so keep it 60a
"If installing for less than maximum power, refer to local electrical code to select correct conductors and ground wire size that are suitable for the chosen circuit breaker"
This means, that you should use correct wire size for the circuit breaker. 3AWG is a correct wire for 100A breaker. But in this setup this rule don't even apply because this setup is for maximum power
"If installing for maximum power, use minimum 6 AWG, 90° C-rated copper wire for conductors. NOTE: Upsize conductors if necessary"
This means, that you may use 3AWG if you can/want for max power setup, which is 60A. A note says, that you can upsize conductors if necessary, for example when wire does not fit, the conductors on wall charger can be upsized. This is not really clear how to do that, but maybe the electrician knows.
Full compliance with a user manual in my opinion
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I know, it doesn’t say you can either. So you can’t. If you go lower you need to reduce the breaker size. It is very clear about that.
It is very specific about which breaker to use for each output setting. You can argue but you are wrong.
except it says to use a 60 amp breaker. The line with “upsize conductors if necessary” has to do with voltage drop and derating.
You can install 3awg wire on a 60 amp breaker, assuming the 60 amp breakers terminals are rated for that wire size.
You can't install 3AWG with 60 amp breaker - the wire will not fit the conductor on the breaker. The author of this post mentioned it, that's why he put 100A breaker.
The only concern here is this, the very first line: "For maximum power output, install a standard double pole 60 amp circuit breaker". So the manual says to use 60A breaker but does not say that you can't use a higher breaker if that in compliance with the code
This is incorrect. It depends on the lug of the breaker. Which is why I said if the lug is rated for 3awg.
For example, a ch260 has lugs that are rated for between 14-2awg.
Qo260 rated for the same…
No, you are incorrect. The manual explicitly states which breaker to use for each level of output.
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