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FWIW: after my 6.5 minute test drive of You You's Model 3 in Jan 2018 at -23c temps, I knew I would have to come up with a standard operating procedure for the HVAC whilst driving my (then future) TM3 in the winter.I was going to post about this topic last week after driving from Boulder/Denver area to Steamboat Springs (roughly 160 miles one way with significant elevation changes) in unusually cold conditions for Colorado (temperatures dipped as low as -4 while we were driving). It was our first EV roadtrip (Model 3 LR AWD) in the worst possible conditions and a few things were obvious to me:
- Frameless windows are not helping. Not only I could feel the cold coming through the top of the window frame into the cabin but also as ice started to form on the bottom of the window I could not get the window to close 100% to fully seal the cabin once I opened the door to get out for a supercharging stop.
- Glass roof is not helping either. When I touched the roof from inside it was extremely cold despite keeping the cabin around 68 degrees, all the cabin heat rising up met this freezing piece of glass making the heater work harder just to keep up with the heat loss.
- Wipers are useless without a heating element that a 20k Corolla has. After the first time I had to spray, most of the wiper surface end up freezing and making them smudge the windshield instead of cleaning it.
- I constantly had to direct heat to the windshield to avoid it from fogging and freezing, a heated windshield would have cut down my heater use significantly
- The lack of heated steering wheel is annoying. Yes, I did wear gloves but they are not as grippy as my skin so not terribly safe to drive in slippery conditions with gloves on.
I didn't even realize that cars had that as an option now. I've had the same experience in wet, but cold weather.- Glass roof is not helping either. When I touched the roof from inside it was extremely cold despite keeping the cabin around 68 degrees, all the cabin heat rising up met this freezing piece of glass making the heater work harder just to keep up with the heat loss.
- Wipers are useless without a heating element that a 20k Corolla has. After the first time I had to spray, most of the wiper surface end up freezing and making them smudge the windshield instead of cleaning it.
- I constantly had to direct heat to the windshield to avoid it from fogging and freezing, a heated windshield would have cut down my heater use significantly
SR+ 90 mile trip. Temps below freezing
First road trip - ok, mini road trip. I was expecting some range loss but was surprised by almost 50%. 77 of the 90 miles was on the highway so not sure of the impact of cruising at 77.
Way out - day: 27 degrees, sun shining
Charged to 230 miles, little over 90%. Got there with 93 miles left, about 37%. Used about 140 of range to go 90 miles.
Way back - night: 22 deg car cooooold
Level 2 charged to 188. Energy graph said I would get home with 11%, actual was 14%, so did not need to spare the heat, radio or speed.
The trip worked as the level two was close and I had 3+ hours before my return. Also had a super charger 20 min away. If I wanted to leave after an hour, not sure I could make that work in the winter time With just the level 2. Will do the trip again in spring and summer, will be interesting to see the differences
Car drove great, fun ride!
but heating is a range killer. More than I expected. I think we might need better solutions or bigger batteries. Can’t wait for battery day.
A diesel fueled heater for the cabin and battery similar to the ones used in planes and boats would be great with a small fuel tank. Lots of heat and less CO2 emissions than using the battery in almost all cases.
An ethanol heater that is properly integrated into the system, by which I mean it injects heated air right into the vents and it exhausts to the outside would be a perfectly sensible solution.
Drag is proportional to the square of velocity. 77 is 28% greater than 60, so it requires 64.7% more energy. I would say just HUUGGEE.Huuuuuggggeeeeee impact at "cruising at 77". Its not linear power usage its more like exponential. "cruising at 60" is much much much much (much much much much) more efficient, from a power usage, not counting heat. It will take you longer to get there going 60 than 77 so not sure how that math works out, but people really discount the effect speed has on range, and it is HUUUUUGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I agree that heat pumps are not a solution to more range in extreme cold.
However, the vast majority of people do not deal with regular extreme cold.
People are much more likely to deal with a lot of cold, and occasional extreme cold, or a lot of what-I-used-to-call-cold, and some cold.
The normal patterns in temperate to cold climates is where a heat pump would help, because it'd raise the typical efficiency and range, lowering operating cost and increasing utility.
However, the question is, how much would the heat pump cost? Because the money could be spent on extra battery capacity. Extra battery capacity increases range when you don't need heat, and increases your fast charging rate.
To me, there is no single solution.
Resistive and capacity for hotter climates.
Heat pump for mild and cold climates.
Fuel heater for extremely cold climates (and I don't include my Central Maine climate in that, a heat pump would be a better balance). Longer term I would favor ethanol heating over diesel, since it's cleaner (with good heaters), we produce a ton of it and will always produce it, and we could do with saving the diesel for the hardest uses to replace.
Just started reading the thread, so sorry if someone downstream already said this.....but, yes, 77 MPH is a factor. Some time last year, I calculated the maximum range as 20MPH. Here's the fraction of that you get as you go faster.....Huuuuuggggeeeeee impact at "cruising at 77". Its not linear power usage its more like exponential. "cruising at 60" is much much much much (much much much much) more efficient, from a power usage, not counting heat. It will take you longer to get there going 60 than 77 so not sure how that math works out, but people really discount the effect speed has on range, and it is HUUUUUGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
MPH % of max range
20 100%
30 94%
35 88%
40 81%
45 75%
50 68%
55 62%
60 57%
65 52%
70 47%
75 43%
80 39%
85 36%
90 33%
The other thing to keep in mind is the energy use for heating is not linear either. You cannot use the energy usage for the first 20 miles to extrapolate the last 20 miles the heating energy needed is not the same. Getting the KWh per mile to settle down by limiting speed and keeping the heat constant will give you a better picture of your actual range. Over a full charge I have never experienced a 50% loss of range in any Tesla.Yup. Found out the hard way. Did a ~266 mile trip (each way). I was getting closer to 200 on a charge than the rated 299 when cruising around 77.
I just know you’re kidding. Isn’t the idea of an EV to get away from fossil fuel? Duh!A diesel fueled heater for the cabin and battery similar to the ones used in planes and boats would be great with a small fuel tank. Lots of heat and less CO2 emissions than using the battery in almost all cases.