Nice. Sounds similar to when my home was approved for PV and they had to swap my meter with one capable of moving in either direction. They gave me a date window and then installed far earlier than the end of the window. I think the 60-day thing is just to provide cover in case they're *way* behind.
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Xcel Time of Use Rates in Colorado
- Thread starter theheff
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- Mountain & Southwest USA
Nice. Sounds similar to when my home was approved for PV and they had to swap my meter with one capable of moving in either direction. They gave me a date window and then installed far earlier than the end of the window. I think the 60-day thing is just to provide cover in case they're *way* behind.
That was probably me - I understand how it works - since we don't have air conditioning our loads are easy to manage. Tesla and Volt will be easy to shift and set charge rates on. Only other large loads are the dryer and oven/range. I think I can keep my demand down to 1kw during peak and avoid getting dinged by the Generation and Transmission charge too badly and keep my demand at 3-4kw off-peak which should still save on my bill as the Distribution charges are made up by significantly cheaper kWh rates. It shouldn't be a huge change in our current usage - in any event they have a grace period to switch out plans. I'm still waiting for the approval email though.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
What's the time frame that defines your peak? IIRC for commercial use the peak has to last >15 minutes for it to count as a 'peak'. It's also usually the average of 5 peaks.
I used to really like the idea of peak demand fees... but residential use is so 'spikey' compared to commercial and it's aggregated among dozens of homes. TOU just makes so much more sense. The more I thought about residential demand fees the more I see them as a utility scam.
From the perspective of a utility their business model requires 2 things. Sell electricity and build more infrastructure. The first goal can interfere with the second goal if pricing encourages rate payers to use the grid more efficiently. Peak TOU shifts load to off-peak with reduces the need for more transmission lines. Universal demand fees let the utility have their cake and eat it too.
"Billing Demand, determined by meter measurement, shall be the maximum sixty (60) minute integrated Measured Demand used during the Month."
They find the hour with the most KWh accumulated throughout the month and bill you based on that.
After trying various scenarios in that spreadsheet I was surprised by how well the demand plan could work in theory. I hope you're able to capitalize on that. Let us know what how it works out because that plan really is the one that should benefit the grid the most so it will be interesting to know if it works in practice.
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I had to sit and think about your argument but it probably has merit unless the EV owner is charging at the same time s/he and everybody else is blasting AC.
My basic problem with the utilities is that they distort the facts of the case so badly I pretty much ignore their arguments. They should have watched Pinnochio as children. I only see two reasonable approaches:
1. Completely disassociate energy charges from grid maintenance from grid upgrades from Utility advertising/lobbying
2. Allow peak demand charges for the amount exceeded by the neighborhood average.
Why is "build more infrastructure" a requirement? I see "build" as a cost, not a source of profit. If the utility can use the infrastructure they already have to deliver/sell more electricity, I don't get why building (and subsequently maintaining) anything else would be useful to them. At least not until all of the capacity of existing infrastructure is fully utilized 24/7 (in the ideal case). I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to learn why building is a requirement.
Because utilities as a monopoly provider in a certain area, if they're regulated, means they can only make profit on capital projects. So if they build a new power plant, they're guaranteed a certain rate of return as profit on the cost of that power plant. That rate of return expires after a certain amount of time, so if they don't keep building, no profit. They don't make profit on the fuel costs of creating electricity.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Not being a Phd in EE, this thread is hard to understand and follow. I am a noob to EV's as well. Any big reasons understandable by a layman NOT to sign up for the TOU plan. I'll probably drive 1000 miles per month. Thanks in advance for your tolerance of my ignorance, S
The key on this plan is to minimize use from 2-6 pm weekdays and do your charging between 9 pm and 9 am. If you can do those two things, you have a decent chance of saving a few bucks/month.
If you have solar PV then it becomes even easier as that defrays the peak and shoulder rate periods.
If you have solar PV then it becomes even easier as that defrays the peak and shoulder rate periods.
What @Zaxxon said. Also, just having an EV is not enough to say yes or no to switching.
Reasons NOT to sign up for TOU:
* You don't have solar or a battery to almost eliminate your 2-6pm use
* You have electric appliances (range, oven, dryer, water heater, heat, AC, etc) and you expect to use them regularly between 9am and 9pm, or much at all 2-6pm.
* Your car usage (about 350 kwh for 1000 miles in a Model S) is less than 2/3 of your overall usage and you're not prepared to shift other electrical usage.
* You don't have flexibility to always shift the time of your non-EV electric usage because someone is home all day on TVs or computers, doing laundry, cooking, etc. This is true at any time of year but especially in summer.
Ultimately, the nighttime rates on the TOU plan just aren't low enough to make it a no-brainer for most people. If you're willing and able to pay a lot of attention to your electric usage throughout every day and can be flexible on when you use electricity, then it could be a decent win. If not, I wouldn't switch.
Don't have solar. AC will be my big power user in the summer and I will use it regardless of cost.. Guessing going to TOU won't save me that much. Thanks again for the help.
I think only @theheff has reported getting his meter installed. I've been closing the blinds every day so the dogs don't scare Xcel away. So far, no new meter!
Nothing from Xcel here since last Monday's acceptance email.
I've been pretending we're already on the new rates to see how easy the shifting would be, and thus far it hasn't been too bad. Our Volvo is the primary EVSE user since it has to charge every night. I set the JuiceBox to supply power only from 9:05 PM to 8:55 AM, and that handles the Volvo. I plug the Leaf in once or twice a week either before bed or when the wife leaves for work in the AM. Short of very edge case situations, the EV charging situation is not difficult to move completely to nighttime rates.
The dishwasher is also dead-simple. We just load as per usual but instead of hitting Start, hit the delay button a few hours to get it post-9 PM. We're not using AC for the season yet, but I reprogrammed the Nest to pump up the temp by 2 degrees from 2-6 PM weekdays to minimize AC usage during the crazypants rate period.
Clothes washing will be more difficult to do at the 9p-9a rates simply due to the amount of time one or both machines are running and the desire not to leave them full overnight to get wrinkled. Keeping that load out of 2p-6p weekday rate trap will be the focus, and realistically we should be able to get about hafl the clothes usage into the nighttime rate with the other half happening during shoulder times.
With that level of shifting and our solar PV eating the first 2-3 kW of peak usage, I think we'll be OK. But I'm still eager to get the actual meter and verify!
I've been pretending we're already on the new rates to see how easy the shifting would be, and thus far it hasn't been too bad. Our Volvo is the primary EVSE user since it has to charge every night. I set the JuiceBox to supply power only from 9:05 PM to 8:55 AM, and that handles the Volvo. I plug the Leaf in once or twice a week either before bed or when the wife leaves for work in the AM. Short of very edge case situations, the EV charging situation is not difficult to move completely to nighttime rates.
The dishwasher is also dead-simple. We just load as per usual but instead of hitting Start, hit the delay button a few hours to get it post-9 PM. We're not using AC for the season yet, but I reprogrammed the Nest to pump up the temp by 2 degrees from 2-6 PM weekdays to minimize AC usage during the crazypants rate period.
Clothes washing will be more difficult to do at the 9p-9a rates simply due to the amount of time one or both machines are running and the desire not to leave them full overnight to get wrinkled. Keeping that load out of 2p-6p weekday rate trap will be the focus, and realistically we should be able to get about hafl the clothes usage into the nighttime rate with the other half happening during shoulder times.
With that level of shifting and our solar PV eating the first 2-3 kW of peak usage, I think we'll be OK. But I'm still eager to get the actual meter and verify!
I just got my first bill with three days of TOU. They give you a nice breakdown of kWh in different intervals.
Personally, it looks like I would save about $10 with TOU compared to normal billing for this month. I expect summer to be a bit more dramatic. Not quite a Tesla car payment, but it'll do.
Personally, it looks like I would save about $10 with TOU compared to normal billing for this month. I expect summer to be a bit more dramatic. Not quite a Tesla car payment, but it'll do.
I didn't realize the ECA would be split for on/off peak like that. That's a bonus since it saves an extra 1.3 cents per kwh from 9pm to 9am.
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