$10,000 for FSD

[mattnis]

I agree, just like most options with most brands . BMW is the one of the rare ones that gives their cars a high residual values

No. Other brands depreciate physical hardware options. Sometimes there's a map upgrade or something, where you say they need to throw that in or you won't buy it, but the kind of depreciation tesla uses on just software is unprecedented.

 

[pilotSteve]

I just added FSD to my 2021 LR AWD order.

I added FSD to my 2016 S90D order (that I paid for and took delivery of in 2016).

So far we both receive the same thing...... NOA.

 

[Fernand]

@Kevy Baby sorry to hear of your frustration. It sounds like all of your problems have to do with the bad luck of having that very specific layout of HOV lanes. I don't follow all of your cases, so I can't make a specific suggestion, though I wish I could help. There are situations where the system has trouble, and they keep working on it.

But if this is the reason you say "NOA doesn't work", and you say it otherwise works pretty well, and your only other negative is that it doesn't always pick your preferred route, I would guess that you can find a practical work-around for your specific issues, including brute force solutions like dropping NOA or turning "use HOV lanes" on and off briefly in those spots. Maybe gather up some dashcam footage, make some sketches and show it at your service center. I did that one time, and they didn't brush it off.

Since you own the NOA option, and you're stuck with that specific route too, it would make sense to keep looking for solutions rather than being content with feeling unhappy. I had a couple of tricky spots where I'd briefly disengage AP, no big deal, but over time it changed and I no longer have to.
.

 

[Kevy Baby]

@Kevy BabySince you own the NOA option, and you're stuck with that specific route too, it would make sense to keep looking for solutions rather than being content with feeling unhappy. I had a couple of tricky spots where I'd briefly disengage AP, no big deal, but over time it changed and I no longer have to.

I provided very specific and repeatable examples intentionally: they are not anecdotal and are highly specific. This is very important in data collection. I also eliminated the neutral aspects that aren't impacted by NoAP and personal preference (eg: route decisions are not factored into my evaluation).

The bottom line is that for my ~45 mile R/T daily commute, NoAP only has a 12.5% success rate for me. Considering that represents probably 65-70% of my total driving experience, I would say that is pretty bad

Anecdotally, NoAP did not perform well on semi-lengthy trip I took last weekend and I will test on a 150 mile R/T I need to take tonight.

 

[Fernand]

@Kevy Baby that's a pain, I sympathize. I don't have your specific route, or these specific problems. You've probably noticed that I rate my own car's success rate as very good. Calculating a percentage failure rate doesn't solve your issues. And this forum isn't a pipeline to Tesla development. People find workarounds and the software keeps changing. I can only wish you success in working out some tricks, for now. Repeatedly recording a bug report and taking the car in might help on the latter.

ps. HOV lanes are tricky because the car can only enter and exit them at specific openings with no lines. Perhaps the people who planned the lines expect humans to cross them "in a pinch"? Maybe the car is doing the best it can do, short of breaking out over the lines? In that case maybe you should turn off "use HOV lanes" before the "lock-in" section to give it a chance?
.

 

[vickh]

No. Other brands depreciate physical hardware options. Sometimes there's a map upgrade or something, where you say they need to throw that in or you won't buy it, but the kind of depreciation tesla uses on just software is unprecedented.

@ $10K FSD would be a third of my SR's cost. which other brand has software at that %/ $ ?

 

[Rottenapplr]

I use my heated seats in SoCal. I try to use heated seats over the heater to save energy. I rank heated seats and led front headlights as must have items.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I look at it this way. If uber was cheaper would I be calling an Uber every day or would I still want and use my own car.

I'm still going to want and use my own car. Cars will still be sold. I don't think robo taxi is going to be as big as everyone thinks. Is anyone here going to sell their tesla for an Uber with no driver? I like owning cars, trucks, motorcycle toys.

The hugeness depends on the cost of autonomy, which would depend not only on the ultimate system cost, but on competition. The more companies with systems, the more competitive pressure there would be to have direct sales to private buyers.

However, it also depends on what happens with advanced driver assistance, because people would be choosing between being driven, and driving themselves. The better the assitance, the smaller the advantage for autonomy.

I think the biggest thing to consider is the potential impact on the used market. The used market is twice the size of the new vehicle market, and it's populated by value seekers and the capital poor. Offer those people an option that still has the convenience of point-to-point travel, but at lower cost, without financial burdens, and with the benefit of not having to drive, and I think you'd see huge demand. If you hit used car demand, you lower resale values, and that has a knock-on effect on the new vehicle market.

Add to that the new-car buyers who're in that market partly due to aversion to risk.

Also add to that people who end up carless, for example coming off leases, or with a write-off. Those people would previously have needed to buy, but would now have the option of using an AV service, removing pressure. Removing pressure to buy is something likely to hurt car sales.

Add it all up, and I think you have the potential for a significantly reduced market, which would be painful for a car industry so dependent on scale.

Given the dependency on scale, that would also be a competitive pressure to sell AV systems directly to consumers in order to raise vehicle sales. So, you could end up with a large reduction in sales, followed by a bounce back.

 

[Kevy Baby]

NoAP only has a 12.5% success rate for me.

I need to correct myself: the actual is 37.5% success rate. Still too low for the money.