10.8 FSD

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

It sounds like an unintended consequence of the right stalk tap-up-to-cancel action. The following comments are not meant to criticize you, just to have you think about the sequence of control actions. The fact that the stalk can be used for several different things can create confusion:

• Canceling out of FSD / Autosteer can be done with a half-push up-tap; a full push up is only required when you want to go into Reverse. I think a single up-tap will initially put you into TACC and then a second half-tap will cancel AP entirely.
• I believe you can only shift from Drive into Reverse if your foot is on the brake pedal (sorry I didn't go out to the car to absolutely confirm this). And if your foot is on the brake pedal it means that FSD / Autopilot modes have already been completely canceled.

So I'm guessing that you pressed the brake pedal, and then used the stalk in an attempt to disengage FSD which was already disengaged, and furthermore pushed all the way up instead of a half-tap, which is how you ended up in Reverse.

Again I'm not writing this to imply that there's anything wrong with you. The fact that there are multiple uses of the stalk and multiple methods of disengaging, can combine to produce this unintended behavior. It might be good if Tesla gave at least a quiet beep beep kind of sound that we all now associate with vehicles in Reverse.

Thanks for the feedback. I didn’t hear the reverse sound nor see the reverse camera pop up. I might have hit a combination of commands that caused a glitch to reverse without any indication.

I also see a glitch with the headlight GUI pop up bottom left when I activate FSD double tap.

 

[Supcom]

I also see a glitch with the headlight GUI pop up bottom left when I activate FSD double tap.

Perhaps a "feature" to help those who want to disable Auto high beams when in AP/FSD?

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

Perhaps a "feature" to help those who want to disable Auto high beams when in AP/FSD?

You are so right! It disappears way too quick for me to figure out what it’s for.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Thanks for the feedback. I didn’t hear the reverse sound nor see the reverse camera pop up. I might have hit a combination of commands that caused a glitch to reverse without any indication.

I also see a glitch with the headlight GUI pop up bottom left when I activate FSD double tap.

I had something happen about a week ago that surprised me. I always have the car programmed for Hold mode. In this one incident, the car stopped normally at a stop light in FSD Autosteer (not FSD beta), on an uphill road. (I don't remember if I happened to touch the brake but I don't think so, and that shouldn't have mattered anyway.)

In any case, to my surprise the car begin to roll slowly backwards down the hill, with another car stopped behind me. I quickly hit the brake pedal and did not experiment any further at that light to see if it would happen again. I still have no idea why this happened and I haven't experienced it again at that intersection or any other. So I agree strange glitches can happen, but it's disturbing in what should be very reliable code. I'm open to anyone explaining what I could have done to cause it.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

I had something happen about a week ago that surprised me. I always have the car programmed for Hold mode. In this one incident, the car stopped normally at a stop light in FSD Autosteer (not FSD beta), on an uphill road. (I don't remember if I happened to touch the brake but I don't think so, and that shouldn't have mattered anyway.)

In any case, to my surprise the car begin to roll slowly backwards down the hill, with another car stopped behind me. I quickly hit the brake pedal and did not experiment any further at that light to see if it would happen again. I still have no idea why this happened and I haven't experienced it again at that intersection or any other. So I agree strange glitches can happen, but it's disturbing in what should be very reliable code. I'm open to anyone explaining what I could have done to cause it.

Which model? My Y (H)old has worked flawless. I had a loaner P75 that rolled back and wouldn’t go on hold until a full stop, because basic autopilot got yanked from the Enterprise rentals.

 

[Natal]

I had a download waiting for me this afternoon when I was out and about but it disappeared while I was driving home. I wonder if they yanked it.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Which model? My Y (H)old has worked flawless. I had a loaner P75 that rolled back and wouldn’t go on hold until a full stop, because basic autopilot got yanked from the Enterprise rentals.

MYLR with paid FSD not Beta, last of the 2021s so fairly new. Hold has been reliable other than that occurrence.

Speculation: Maybe Hold is polling the speed a couple of times per second to determine a Stopped condition, and somehow the car went from slow-forward to slow-reverse in between polling checks, such that Hold never recognized the Zero-velocity state? But it seems to me that Hold should initiate on less-than-or-equal to 0 mph while the car is in Drive, not just equal-to-0. I will say that I have seen relatively large and mature software packages with a control language that does a poor job of reliably handling numeric comparisons like this (non-integer tests). I hope this is not the case with the Tesla driving control software.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I have noticed if you hit the brake now while the car is in "hold" it puts you in neutral...anyone else see this?

That could easily explain the rolling-backwards experience I just posted about. But this seems bad and very counterintuitive. If you happen to touch the brake pedal it actually can cause the car to roll where otherwise it would have been holding still. If true I don't like that at all!

I'll have to test on hills with no cars behind me, to see if this really is the way it works now. It's very possible that was one of my first drives after the car finally updated from the break-in firmware 2021.35.102 to the normal-track 2021.44.6, about a week ago.

 

[TravelFree]

My experience is also that vision only produces fewer phantom brakes on the highway. Unfortunately I think we are in the minority, based on a recent poll I saw around here.

Not sure how old the data on that poll is but I will admit there was no difference in frequency of phantom braking on the highway early last summer. After several software updates the frequency has nearly disappeared. I think the last hard braking I experienced was in August. I don't count minor slowing for something like a jogger along the road or a bicyclist in the bike lane or slowing for a hard bend in the road. I would be backing off a bit for those myself.

I find most of the reports on radar + vision vs radar only aren't based on real facts and not what I experience.

 

[TravelFree]

Your 100% correct there. You need to pay more attention than just driving yourself when on FSD. You need to watch for what others are doing and anticipate what FSD might do at all times! That's the main reason it's not for everyone.

This has been the thinking since we first started testing. It's like being a driver instructor for a 10 yr old. I can drive hundreds of miles with no mistakes on the interstate, relaxed using AP + NOA. but fsd beta off highway and I'm teaching a 10 yr old that doesn't learn well. Keeps making the same mistake for weeks.

 

[TravelFree]

Anyone have FSD go in reverse without warning? I canceled FSD and about to make a left turn red light waiting for green. As soon as it changes green I hit the gas pedal and it goes in reverse and give me and my wife a surprise whip lash not expecting it to go backwards luckily not smashing into the car behind me. I had adrenaline rushing and looked at the screen and shifted into drive. Later on I recall not hearing the reverse sound nor did I see the reverse camera. This is the most frightening FSD experience so far. I have it captured on dashcam, not sure who to send to.

Is that the new 2021 model S with software based automatic shifting?

Folks- you all need to post what model car you are reporting because a report like the above is meaningless without it. Suggest everyone put the model and software info in their sig and keep it up to date.

 

[johnmodely]

Did a bit of driving in 10.8 today with bunch of snapshots recorded for failures. Surprised with how much data beta sends back to Tesla.

Have already uploaded 19 GB over two drives. Hope all the new testers have good upload speeds!

Was wondering what happens when there is no wifi, I park in city street during the week so do these all just get queue for next wifi or upload over lte as well?

 

[JHCCAZ]

Did a bit of driving in 10.8 today with bunch of snapshots recorded for failures. Surprised with how much data beta sends back to Tesla.

Have already uploaded 19 GB over two drives. Hope all the new testers have good upload speeds!

Was wondering what happens when there is no wifi, I park in city street during the week so do these all just get queue for next wifi or upload over lte as well?

I think that all HW2+ Teslas have LTE whether or not you have paid Premium Connectivity. If Tesla wants to see your report data from FSD beta they will take it from the car. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

[JHCCAZ]

...
Folks- you all need to post what model car you are reporting because a report like the above is meaningless without it. Suggest everyone put the model and software info in their sig and keep it up to date.

You're right, Done. I neglected this as I was waiting on the car for most of this year.

 

[Sporty]

Anyone have FSD go in reverse without warning? I canceled FSD and about to make a left turn red light waiting for green. As soon as it changes green I hit the gas pedal and it goes in reverse and give me and my wife a surprise whip lash not expecting it to go backwards luckily not smashing into the car behind me. I had adrenaline rushing and looked at the screen and shifted into drive. Later on I recall not hearing the reverse sound nor did I see the reverse camera. This is the most frightening FSD experience so far. I have it captured on dashcam, not sure who to send to.

Something similar happened to me. I’m in the habit of using the the stalk to cancel fsd because taking over with the steering wheel doesn’t stop it from later accelerating. The car was being to aggressive coming up to a light and I stopped hit the stick and when I went to go it started to go backwards. Managed to stop in time. Now I pay extra attention to that when disengaging fsd.

 

[Dutchy Ron]

Map problem.

Tesla really needs to install a transparent process to take in map corrections and get it done. We should be able to see the status of update request and in the next build we should get the change. If small companies like TomTom implement it, why not a Trillion $ market cap company ?

I agree, when map issues causes most of the dangerous SDC issues Tesla should use near real time accurate (HD) Maps to avoid this. It took TomTom 5 to 7 years to build the HD-Map factory to update Maps in real time. These Will be send OTA.
Volkswagen signed a deal with TomTom last week and Toyota/Lexus, Hyundai/KIA, Stellantis (mergel FCA & PSA) and other OEM’s will follow next year. Just like the Chinese OEM’s NIO, Xpeng, BYD, Aito (from Huawei), etc.
They will close the gap with Tesla in 3 years and the level 3+ FSD feature will be better than the one from Tesla.
With the current platform, concept and Maps L3+ will not be possible and all those Tesla drivers who paid $10k in advance will be complaining even more coming years.

If Tesla was using Maps of TomTom and updated them real time only for the region where the car is driving Tesla’s will become much more safer. In that case wrong Maps can be updates as well by the crowd and Tesl driver via the TomTom website. At this moment 95% of the updates of the TomTom Maps are done by the probes and data from the 650m devices in a real time basis. Only 5% is done manualy.

So Elon should use real time maps for safety reasons!!

Just my opinion

ps: I don’t believe in the Mobileye concept either, I only trust the HD Maps of TomTom

 

[diplomat33]

LOL. Do't you think you should research a bit before saying something like that ? There are companies whose only work is to maintain 2D maps. Its big and competitive business.

Behind the map: how we keep our maps up to date | TomTom Newsroom

Take a look at TomTom’s map-making process to understand how we can consistently deliver map accuracy down to centimeters.

www.tomtom.com

ps : Extra points if you can find how many user updates TomTom processes per week.

Then they should do a better job updating their maps then since we are pointing out all the errors in the maps that cause FSD Beta problems.

 

[diplomat33]

this is where I have the problem - if Mobileeye is able to crowdsource map data from their millions of cars - why doesn't Tesla?
Especially now FSD failures dues to crappy map data is such an issue.
That was supposed to be their big advantage.

Tesla could and should. The only reason Tesla does not do this is because Elon is stubborn in his "vision-only" approach.

 

[JulienW]

.....You can shift directly from Drive to Reverse without stopping or having your foot on the brake so long as you are below 5 mph or so. This would cancel FSD......

Since I got into Beta (10.2) I haven't been able to shift into Reverse without using the Brake pedal (aggravating). I even get a waring. Here is a pic of the Icon and if expanded it says something like "Must use Brake Pedal to change Gears". So you can shift into Reverse without using the Brake Pedal?

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Any Legacy S & X getting the down load yet? Teslarati is reporting it going out. to one or many I don't know I still haven't received it yet.

Tesla 2021 Holiday Update rolls out to legacy Model S and Model X

When Tesla recently conducted the initial rollout of its 2021 Holiday Update, electric vehicle owners were quick to point out that pre-refresh Model S and Model X vehicles were seemingly left out. This was quite unfortunate since Software Version 11.0 could be considered as one of the most...

www.teslarati.com

Any Teslafi stats showing it going out?