12v battery issue, Tesla unsatisfactory response

[android04]

I read that it's JIS B24 size which is a Japanese size and pretty close to group 51.

The R means the positive terminal is on the right (which I assume is with the terminal side facing you).

That is correct for the orientation. The battery is RFP. I thought for some reason that R in the code meant reversed (from “standard”)

How do we know this is what the R means?

This is how we know: Group 51 and 51R Batteries - Dimensions, Features and Recommendations

I guess the document from the manufacturer is wrong. Could be wrong about the AGM too though the price suggests it is not AGM.

The linked AtlasBX document is the international one. Look at the US specific document for more information on the battery. In that one, it lists the battery as Group Size 51. I've been telling people that Group Size 51R is positioned exactly like the OEM battery, but if there's enough slack in the cables a Group Size 51 battery should work fine (the terminals are not centered on the battery and using the non-R would put them a few inches away from the original position).

Here's the info from the two Hankook AtlasBX documents. I also do not believe that the OEM battery is AGM because of the nomenclature in the documents.

US

International

 

[Redbrick]

I wear an "out of spec" t-shirt with a Tesla logo when I visit to plant a subliminal message to start discussions.

ah you naughty kid...NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

 

[GeorgeC1]

@Tjhappel
How is this any different if your two ICE cars were blocking the driveway with a dead battery and you couldn't get the Tesla out ?? Would you send an "emergency roadside assistance" note to Toyota or BMW, or Honda and demand they rush over and change your dead 12v battery that was out of warranty ??

She could call many companies and they will show up ASAP and replace the battery. AAA will do it. Most ICE cars can also be placed in neutral and pushed.

 

[vickh]

She could call many companies and they will show up ASAP and replace the battery. AAA will do it. Most ICE cars can also be placed in neutral and pushed.

So AAA won't do Tesla batteries currently? (have AAA but still under warranty)

 

[Daniel in SD]

So AAA won't do Tesla batteries currently? (have AAA but still under warranty)

Best bet is to tell them you have a Nissan Leaf, it also uses a 51R size battery.

 

[electricar]

I’ve read on the forums a 51R agm battery will work as a replacement. Perhaps local Costco, autozone or advance auto have one

Batteries Plus sells a group 51R AGM - typical Honda size so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

The battery in the link in the quoted post does not look like it's a deep cycle type. I'm not a battery expert by any means, but I do know just enough to be dangerous. Take the difference between "deep cycle" batteries and what would be considered a "standard" ICE battery...

Deep Cycle batteries are meant to deliver lower total amperage, and the battery is designed to be discharged fairly deeply and fully recharged often. These types of batteries are often used in recreational vehicles. These batteries are NOT designed to deliver the huge current needed to start a gas engine.

"Standard" ICE batteries are designed to give huge amounts of cranking amperage to start a vehicle, and that's it; they are not designed for long continuous low amperage loads.

The Model 3 OEM battery is deep cycle, which makes perfect sense considering how the Model 3 uses 12v power... no cranking amperage required.

From what I've read, using a standard battery in a Tesla will kill it in short order.

While that battery technically "fits" in the car, the battery type itself is not suitable for use in a Model 3. Unless, of course, that battery is available in a deep cycle type.

I am also definitely not a battery expert. Will keep this forum posted on the performance of my non-OEM battery. So far I have 10k miles with it and all is well.

 

[vickh]

View attachment 591512
Best bet is to tell them you have a Nissan Leaf, it also uses a 51R size battery.

That would work if DIY/ parts store.

I think they have the same problem as OP. Hard to access the battery. Looking to see if someone here has personal experience calling them w/ Tesla

 

[dfwatt]

Battery Day is in two days and I hope that Tesla will also, perhaps, announce something related to a new ability to DROP/REMOVE that friggin' 12-volt battery, forever?

Not only does it lead to these major issues, on all of their models, the batteries are heavy too. (Avoiding mass is a good thing on anything that moves

On older MS's, they're also a pain in butt to replace. Not the best engineering back then, but hey, the MS's Chief Engineer left many years ago and is at Lucid now so let's see how that works out (and if he's learned anything in the interim).

As for "Tesla Service," their response to you is just plain 100% UNSAT.

Elon: Fix this (again) as you have REALLY dropped the ball here.

Actually Tesla already tried this experiment with the original Roadster. Many of the first models were actually rolled out with no 12 volt battery. After all they reasoned, why do you need an antiquated and heavy lead acid 12 volt battery when you've got a much more modern lithium-ion battery that you can draw power from? Seemed like a no-brainer at the time...

Unfortunately that meant some of them that were left for long periods of time ended up with a bricked high-voltage pack. So what would you rather have a bricked 12v battery that's cheap or the high voltage battery that cost many thousands to replace? Seems like an easy choice to me. They could do a better job of providing codes that would allow you to diagnose what's going wrong. One of the first things I did was replaced the lead acid battery with an aftermarket lithium iron phosphate battery that's been trouble-free. Knock on wood.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Actually Tesla already tried this experiment with the original Roadster. Many of the first models were actually rolled out with no 12 volt battery. After all they reasoned, why do you need an antiquated and heavy lead acid 12 volt battery when you've got a much more modern lithium-ion battery that you can draw power from? Seemed like a no-brainer at the time...

Unfortunately that meant some of them that were left for long periods of time ended up with a bricked high-voltage pack. So what would you rather have a bricked 12v battery that's cheap or the high voltage battery that cost many thousands to replace? Seems like an easy choice to me. They could do a better job of providing codes that would allow you to diagnose what's going wrong. One of the first things I did was replaced the lead acid battery with an aftermarket lithium iron phosphate battery that's been trouble-free. Knock on wood.

There MUST be a third way . . . .

Surely the smart folks at Tesla will come up with one as the HV battery has a massive amount more capacity than the original Roadster, and we're talking about the same energy--the 12-volt is powered by the HV pack, afterall!

(And Teslas don't "brick" their batteries any more either.)

 

[Daniel in SD]

No 12V battery news on "Battery Day", TSLA stock down 10% today. Coincidence?
I'd love to chat with Tesla engineers to find out why they can't replace it with a small Li-Ion and keep the DC to DC on all the time so it would last the life of the car (or at least as long as the main pack).

 

[Occhis]

I keep a small portable jump starter in the unused tow hitch door of my 3 just in case this happens to me one day. I will pull it out, open my frunk, charge the batter, drive home.

They have waterproof ones but I just stuck mine in a plastic bag.

Which jump starter do you have that fits in the small round tow hitch door? Or do you have a tow hitch installed on the rear of your car?

 

[dfwatt]

There MUST be a third way . . . .

Surely the smart folks at Tesla will come up with one as the HV battery has a massive amount more capacity than the original Roadster, and we're talking about the same energy--the 12-volt is powered by the HV pack, afterall!

(And Teslas don't "brick" their batteries any more either.)

Wrong. If you're away on vacation and you let your battery high voltage battery that is drain to zero and sit in cold weather it is permanently damaged

 

[SageBrush]

This is the sort of cluster frap that gives EV's a bad name . . . and that Tesla should have engineered better than they did. An example would be some creative way to get into the massive pile of energy stored in the main pack, despite the 12-volt being dead, so as to allow "fail safe mode" allowing one to at least move the "brick" out of the way. And open doors, close windows, etc.

Yes, you CAN get in but it requires an external battery and a little bit of time and effort. Then you can jump the 12V battery and it should be enough to either start the car or put it in neutral and push it out of the way.

I don't view the 12v in my Tesla as worse than an ICE, but a different set of problems and solutions. The good news is I have a traction battery; the trick is being able to use it. To that end I keep a 9v in my pouch and in my wife's purse so I can always open the frunk, and I keep an emergency battery starter in the car that I recharge annually.

My frunk holds my emergency kit that includes a wrench and 10 mm socket so that once the car is powered I can drive to a store to buy and install a replacement.

End of mini-drama

 

[Gasaraki]

@Tjhappel
How is this any different if your two ICE cars were blocking the driveway with a dead battery and you couldn't get the Tesla out ?? Would you send an "emergency roadside assistance" note to Toyota or BMW, or Honda and demand they rush over and change your dead 12v battery that was out of warranty ??

For some reason, people just expect things that are not the norm with other cars. No other vehicle manufacture is going to send someone to your home to replace a dead battery. I had my battery die in my 2016 WRX in Nov 2019. No warning, just suddenly wouldn't crank. Had to jump start the battery and make an appointment with the dealer to get it replaced out of warranty.

 

[toolman335]

I don't view the 12v in my Tesla as worse than an ICE, but a different set of problems and solutions. The good news is I have a traction battery; the trick is being able to use it. To that end I keep a 9v in my pouch and in my wife's purse so I can always open the frunk, and I keep an emergency battery starter in the car that I recharge annually.

My frunk holds my emergency kit that includes a wrench and 10 mm socket so that once the car is powered I can drive to a store to buy and install a replacement.

End of mini-drama

This^^^^^
For very few dollars you can have the 9v and battery jump-starter to achieve peace of mind!

 

[SageBrush]

By the way, this website summarizes 51r battery replacements. Note the advice to avoid 'starter' batteries that have high CCA but low longevity when used in cycling applications like our cars.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

For some reason, people just expect things that are not the norm with other cars. No other vehicle manufacture is going to send someone to your home to replace a dead battery. I had my battery die in my 2016 WRX in Nov 2019. No warning, just suddenly wouldn't crank. Had to jump start the battery and make an appointment with the dealer to get it replaced out of warranty.

you can easily and reliably jumpstart at 12V battery in an ICE vehicle and - once the engine is running - it will charge the battery and unless you turn it off you can easily make it to the next batter plus store or whatever. things are a *little* more complex with the Model 3... beginning with that jump starting not always works and that you cannot simply go to a store and pick up a battery or the "ranger appointment 2 weeks out" or that service centers won;t see you without an appointment...

 

[one2many]

you can easily and reliably jumpstart at 12V battery in an ICE vehicle and - once the engine is running - it will charge the battery and unless you turn it off you can easily make it to the next batter plus store or whatever. things are a *little* more complex with the Model 3... beginning with that jump starting not always works and that you cannot simply go to a store and pick up a battery or the "ranger appointment 2 weeks out" or that service centers won;t see you without an appointment...

Ok I lived in Texas 20 years so I will take a stab at this. First a jump start works maybe 60% of the time, really the temp
and how bad battery is. I have blown up an ICE battery with a shorted cell, damn big boom. Having charged both types of
cars I see no difference on how the work either on jump start or slow charge. In the hood there are always folks
that will do a battery for a beer or two. I am sure the lone ranger and Tonto will be willing to help as well. Yes there are
stores where you can buy batteries, they are called auto parts stores formerly Seers. I am sure if you can get it to
a service center and beg, they will fix it, it is about 10 minutes.

 

[Gasaraki]

you can easily and reliably jumpstart at 12V battery in an ICE vehicle and - once the engine is running - it will charge the battery and unless you turn it off you can easily make it to the next batter plus store or whatever. things are a *little* more complex with the Model 3... beginning with that jump starting not always works and that you cannot simply go to a store and pick up a battery or the "ranger appointment 2 weeks out" or that service centers won;t see you without an appointment...

That's just not true. Jump starting is just as easy. The hard part is opening the hood. The rest is the same. Once the car is on, it charges the 12V. If you don't want it to die again just keep is running or go get your own 12V and replace it.