16 A charge limit in car/app. Car broken?

[LiamPope]

I jumped into a used car a little suddenly (instead of waiting for new order) so didn't get the wall charger for full 11 kW sorted. I'll get to that - requires a fair bit of destruction to get a cable conduit where it needs to be. In the meantime I'm charging from the garage. I'm in Europe so that's 16 A standard socket and I get 13 A charge rate. Was a bit confused by that at first but after reading a bit I believe it's the UMC doing a bit of nannying there.

So I'm thinking to improve this temporary situation a little. Garage supply is 32 A with a mini CU in the garage with breakers for sockets, lights and the car lift. So I could install a 16 A blue socket to get the full 16 A charging, or even a 20 or 25 A breaker to a 32 A blue socket for a bit more. Reluctant to draw the full 32 A sustained. Then just need to get the right adaptor for the UMC.

But what I'm scratching my head about is in my car or the app I can't choose more than 16 A in the charge limit. So how will I allow 20 or 25, or indeed the full shebang when I get the wall charger on 3-phase? Reading up a little I'm concerned this indicates my car charging system is broken! As far as I can tell there's no reason in theory I shouldn't be able to set 32 or even 48 A here when not connected to any charging equipment with a lower limit?

Am I right and is my car broken and needs to go in? Early 2022 M3 LR by the way.

 

[Dilly]

I jumped into a used car a little suddenly (instead of waiting for new order) so didn't get the wall charger for full 11 kW sorted. I'll get to that - requires a fair bit of destruction to get a cable conduit where it needs to be. In the meantime I'm charging from the garage. I'm in Europe so that's 16 A standard socket and I get 13 A charge rate. Was a bit confused by that at first but after reading a bit I believe it's the UMC doing a bit of nannying there.

So I'm thinking to improve this temporary situation a little. Garage supply is 32 A with a mini CU in the garage with breakers for sockets, lights and the car lift. So I could install a 16 A blue socket to get the full 16 A charging, or even a 20 or 25 A breaker to a 32 A blue socket for a bit more. Reluctant to draw the full 32 A sustained. Then just need to get the right adaptor for the UMC.

But what I'm scratching my head about is in my car or the app I can't choose more than 16 A in the charge limit. So how will I allow 20 or 25, or indeed the full shebang when I get the wall charger on 3-phase? Reading up a little I'm concerned this indicates my car charging system is broken! As far as I can tell there's no reason in theory I shouldn't be able to set 32 or even 48 A here when not connected to any charging equipment with a lower limit?

Am I right and is my car broken and needs to go in? Early 2022 M3 LR by the way.

The charger is only offering 16amps so the car will only show 16amps. When you have a higher rate charger in place, the car will know…

 

[LiamPope]

The charger is only offering 16amps so the car will only show 16amps. When you have a higher rate charger in place, the car will know…

But when nothing is connected? Should that menu setting be unrestricted, or is it remembering the limit of previous chargers? Previous owner said he only ever charged at home - 10 A, or at work - 16 A.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Also 3 phase is 11kw - 16A*3

32A is single phase.

So when you get your 3 phase supply you'll still only see 16A just with a (3) next to it.

 

[Adopado]

Also 3 phase is 11kw - 16A*3

32A is single phase.

So when you get your 3 phase supply you'll still only see 16A just with a (3) next to it.

^ This is the answer. (UMC can only operate on a single phase whereas with 3 phase wall charge point you can use all 3 phases, so you will then get the full 11kW that your car is capable of taking when AC charging.)

 

[MrT3]

But when nothing is connected? Should that menu setting be unrestricted, or is it remembering the limit of previous chargers? Previous owner said he only ever charged at home - 10 A, or at work - 16 A.

With nothing connected it will only show up to 16 A. Once you connect something that can supply more it will unlock the higher current options. There is nothing wrong with your car.

 

[LiamPope]

Regarding the eventual three-phase wall charger, Norway is weird - many areas have an IT (as opposed to TN) network with 230 V between phases, no neutral. Fortunately the Tesla wall charger supports this - referred to as delta three-phase or similar. That will get a 32 A three-phase breaker but only draw around 28 A for the 11 kW.

Anyway - for the current single-phase situation with the UMC, what you all are saying is as soon as I swap out the 16 A schuko adaptor for a 32 A blue plug on the UMC, the car/app charge limit menu option will magically jump up to 32 A and from there I can dial it down to 20 or 25 depending what I install for the socket? So not broken.

Thanks!

 

[MrT3]

Anyway - for the current single-phase situation with the UMC, what you all are saying is as soon as I swap out the 16 A schuko adaptor for a 32 A blue plug, the car/app charge limit menu option will magically jump up to 32 A and from there I can dial it down to 20 or 25 depending what I install for the socket? So not broken.

Yes. When you first use it the car will start to ramp up to 32 A. Once you dial it down it should remember the setting in future.

 

[LampyDave]

Anyway - for the current single-phase situation with the UMC, what you all are saying is as soon as I swap out the 16 A schuko adaptor for a 32 A blue plug on the UMC, the car/app charge limit menu option will magically jump up to 32 A and from there I can dial it down to 20 or 25 depending what I install for the socket? So not broken.

Thanks!

Yes. The different adaptors unlock different amperages from the charger. I have 13A, 16A and 32A adaptors and the available charge current changes according to what is in use at the tme. Smart system 'cos it avoids popping a breaker or setting fire to something if the limit were left too high.

 

[ThornOfCamorr]

When I plug my 32A charger in the Car but the charger doesn’t supply electricity, the car/app show a charging limit of 16A Max. Once the charger supplies electricity, the charging limit adjusts to the 32A

 

[LiamPope]

When I plug my 32A charger in the Car but the charger doesn’t supply electricity, the car/app show a charging limit of 16A Max. Once the charger supplies electricity, the charging limit adjusts to the 32A

That sounds a bit strange - I'd expect to be able to dial my limit down to 20/25 A (depending what breaker I fit) before switching on charging. If it has to be switched on first and it tries out 32 A it'll trip the breaker. But I'm sure it isn't that daft??

 

[GRiLLA]

I think you are confusing two controls. When the Tesla Wall Connector is set up you can tell it the maximum Amps it will offer to the car, this should be suitable for your breaker.

The car setting allows you to limit the power the car will request, as long as this is also lower than the chargers limit.

 

[Adopado]

That sounds a bit strange - I'd expect to be able to dial my limit down to 20/25 A (depending what breaker I fit) before switching on charging. If it has to be switched on first and it tries out 32 A it'll trip the breaker. But I'm sure it isn't that daft??

An over-current breaker doesn't trip immediately. You would have plenty of time to reduce the amps. The car should remember what you set based on your location. Next time you charge you shouldn't have to make an adjustment manually.

 

[LiamPope]

I think you are confusing two controls. When the Tesla Wall Connector is set up you can tell it the maximum Amps it will offer to the car, this should be suitable for your breaker.

The car setting allows you to limit the power the car will request, as long as this is also lower than the chargers limit.

Nah I'm aware of how the Wall Connector is setup when I eventually get one. I'll have to use a real sparky for that, so he can set it up himself!

I took Thorn's post above as referring to using a single-phase UMC with 32 A blue adaptor (or equivalent) which I'm planning to do as a stop-gap until I get a Wall Connector. His post saying he can't set any limit above 16 A until after a 32 A charger is plugged in and charging, then it jumps up to 32 A, suggests a possible scenario where I plug in and it immediately tries charging at 32 A, popping the breaker before I have a chance to dial it down to 25 A.

But that sounds so stupid I'm sure it can't work like that! Maybe it will start off at the 16 A limit and I'll be able to dial it up from there. Sounds more sensible!

Anyway I'll find out soon - ordered a 32 A blue adaptor from Tesla already and will smash in a socket on a 25 A breaker and see what happens! I expect it'll work just fine and I'll have almost doubled charging rate, which will be handy, then when I get the Wall Connector it almost doubles again! But since we are getting by fine with the 13 A which will soon be doubled, I'm predicting I start to question if I ever need the Wall Connector and the associated house dismantling!

 

[Adopado]

.... after a 32 A charger is plugged in and charging, then it jumps up to 32 A, suggests a possible scenario where I plug in and it immediately tries charging at 32 A, popping the breaker before I have a chance to dial it down to 25 A.

It won't trip in a short time.

 

[LiamPope]

An over-current breaker doesn't trip immediately. You would have plenty of time to reduce the amps. The car should remember what you set based on your location. Next time you charge you shouldn't have to make an adjustment manually.

Actually yeah you're right, I'm not thinking straight! Thinking of Norwegian curves. 32 A even on a 20 A breaker should be somewhere in the 'some minutes' region of the curve for normal (i.e. not Norwegian) breakers, so plenty of time in practice! Most Norwegian breakers have modified curves to trip 'in reasonable time' at only 1.1 or 1.2x rated current as opposed to normal 1.45x (so they do trip quickly in a smaller overload - due to a silly Norwegian-only regulation) but I think that's only 20 A and below, so I'll be OK - need a quick recap. Nothing to worry about then probably.

 

[Adopado]

Anyway I'll find out soon - ordered a 32 A blue adaptor from Tesla already and will smash in a socket on a 25 A breaker and see what happens! I expect it'll work just fine and I'll have almost doubled charging rate, which will be handy, then when I get the Wall Connector it almost doubles again! But since we are getting by fine with the 13 A which will soon be doubled, I'm predicting I start to question if I ever need the Wall Connector and the associated house dismantling!

There are threads on the forum about charging via a "commando" socket and the pros/cons.

 

[ThornOfCamorr]

Nah I'm aware of how the Wall Connector is setup when I eventually get one. I'll have to use a real sparky for that, so he can set it up himself!

I took Thorn's post above as referring to using a single-phase UMC with 32 A blue adaptor (or equivalent) which I'm planning to do as a stop-gap until I get a Wall Connector. His post saying he can't set any limit above 16 A until after a 32 A charger is plugged in and charging, then it jumps up to 32 A, suggests a possible scenario where I plug in and it immediately tries charging at 32 A, popping the breaker before I have a chance to dial it down to 25 A.

But that sounds so stupid I'm sure it can't work like that! Maybe it will start off at the 16 A limit and I'll be able to dial it up from there. Sounds more sensible!

Anyway I'll find out soon - ordered a 32 A blue adaptor from Tesla already and will smash in a socket on a 25 A breaker and see what happens! I expect it'll work just fine and I'll have almost doubled charging rate, which will be handy, then when I get the Wall Connector it almost doubles again! But since we are getting by fine with the 13 A which will soon be doubled, I'm predicting I start to question if I ever need the Wall Connector and the associated house dismantling!

Sorry wasn’t clear enough. This is when I plug in the Wallbox pulsar plus.
I can control charging current via the Wallbox but the car seems to default to a max of 16A with the plug plugged in but the charger not sending electricity to the car. Once the Wallbox starts charging, the car jumps to the 32A which I then can dial down

 

[Roy B]

Regarding the eventual three-phase wall charger, Norway is weird - many areas have an IT (as opposed to TN) network with 230 V between phases, no neutral. Fortunately the Tesla wall charger supports this - referred to as delta three-phase or similar. That will get a 32 A three-phase breaker but only draw around 28 A for the 11 kW.

IT relates to the earthing arragnement and not specifically to 3 phase delta, which is somethig different. I believe in Norway single phase is often IT, too. My understanding is that the Norwegian UMC is special and specifically supports IT earthing arrangements - if you try and use any other European UMC on a Norwegian IT connection it's likely to show an earth fault and refuse to charge.

Of course, none of this matters most of the time but it can catch visitors out if they bring their UMC with them and expect to be able to use it in Norway.

 

[LiamPope]

IT relates to the earthing arragnement and not specifically to 3 phase delta, which is somethig different. I believe in Norway single phase is often IT, too. My understanding is that the Norwegian UMC is special and specifically supports IT earthing arrangements - if you try and use any other European UMC on a Norwegian IT connection it's likely to show an earth fault and refuse to charge.

Of course, none of this matters most of the time but it can catch visitors out if they bring their UMC with them and expect to be able to use it in Norway.

Yes you're right - IT is the earthing arrangement of the network, as opposed to TN most common in UK. I only mention 'delta three-phase' as that's what Tesla call it in the Wall Connector user manual and if you're on the IT-net here you wire up the Wall Connector according to that scheme using L1, L2 and N even though there is no N - like I say, weird! I'm fairly sure the distribution transformer secondaries are not actually delta-connected here - they are wye with ~132 L-N, 230 L-L and the neutral point is left isolated, only the three phase wires in the local network to consumers. So effectively there is no single-phase here - as a minimum you use two of the three phases for a 'single-phase' 230 V supply, but all houses have all three phases.

In the Wall connector setup on the IT network you must disable the ground assurance monitoring. This is monitoring for low earth fault loop impedance and depends on an earthed neutral, so it will freak out and alarm on the IT network. I guess most likely a similar check is preventing foreign UMCs from working in Norway and it is disabled in Norwegian UMCs. My Norwegian UMC will work anywhere, but technically is less safe as it is not doing this ground monitoring.