Charging using 32amp Commando and mobile charger

[amperage]

It looks like if I purchase the blue commando adapter, my mobile charger which came with my MYLR, would go from the rather pitiful 1kW to 2kW charging rate up to 7.4kW, by using a 32amp https://shop.tesla.com/en_gb/product/blue-adapter---16a_32a-

The question I have been unable to get answered is.

If I put a 32amp commando socket in my garage and have the mobile charger in the garage so it's protected from the elements and I run the main cable that plugs into the car under the garage door and plug it into the car. Is this safe?

For example, do I still need a PEN detector and DC leakage detection?

I believe these are required (at least the PEN) by regulation, and perhaps not for a mobile device? But is the same risk there? I suspect it is.

If it is recommended or required, if I put a PEN detector to the socket (or have one built into the consumer unit - I THINK you can buy them and it looks like it's advisable to replace my 25 year old plastic case consumer unit), that it would then be just as safe as an outdoor wall charger, potentially a little safer as the charging unit is inside the garage.

Appreciate comments on this, thanks

 

[Avendit]

Most of your answers are in here (and more) Here's how to charge with 32A commando in UK

But mostly to your questions, yes. You can, you do need pen protection which will make it not much more than getting a charger.

As a 'temporary' or 'backup' option I'm quite a fan of a cheap 16a comando strapped into a known good circuit. As a perm solution, by the time you add cable that can handle 32a and the required protection, my opinion is you are within spitting distance of a cheap proper charger so you may as well, and keep the granny charger for charging at... granny's.

 

[TechnoWatch]

rather pitiful 1kW to 2kW charging rate

What is making the charger go slower than 2kW? Is should be pegged to 2kW all the time.... If it going slower (e.g. voltage drop), then you may have a more fundamental issue to resolve with your electricity supply.

Also why do you need the faster speed - 2kW is more than enough for 40% overnight charging.

I run the main cable that plugs into the car under the garage door and plug it into the car

I have almost this setup (I run at the 10A/2.3kW supplied to car) with a notch in the garage frame (with a plug to make the cable captive) allowing the door to open anc close normally and effectively have the same as an outdoor charge cable.

 

[TechnoWatch]

Most of your answers are in here (and more) Here's how to charge with 32A commando in UK

But mostly to your questions, yes. You can, you do need pen protection which will make it not much more than getting a charger.

As a 'temporary' or 'backup' option I'm quite a fan of a cheap 16a comando strapped into a known good circuit. As a perm solution, by the time you add cable that can handle 32a and the required protection, my opinion is you are within spitting distance of a cheap proper charger so you may as well, and keep the granny charger for charging at... granny's.

Depends on you definition of spitting distance.... likely double the cost - but that is still £500ish which might be spitting distance for some.

 

[thewishy]

One note, you've not said what earthing arrangements you have. Most will be TN-C-S, which would require Pen Fault protection for a circuit intended for outdoor car charging. But there is a possibility that you have another arrangement.

I'll just add that if you intended to charge the car in the garage itself, you probably wouldn't need PEN fault protection, as it would be difficult to come into contact with both the car and true earth. (You'd need a spark to agree with that when they install the 32a circuit)
I don't know how easy it would be for you to keep the car in the garage, just mentioning that this is a potential option.

 

[Avendit]

Depends on you definition of spitting distance.... likely double the cost - but that is still £500ish which might be spitting distance for some.

Fair point! I used to refer people to the mini pro 2 as an about £500 option, but the pro 3 seems to be a £1000 option now . For that I'd absolutely be looking at alternatives, or getting an Andersen.

@amperage - as someone else said, if the UMC is slowing down its detecting a voltage drop, probably from heat. That's bad. Investigate ASAP.

Final advice if you use the UMC long term - 3d print a holder so it's not dangling!

 

[Adopado]

It looks like if I purchase the blue commando adapter, my mobile charger which came with my MYLR, would go from the rather pitiful 1kW to 2kW charging rate up to 7.4kW, by using a 32amp https://shop.tesla.com/en_gb/product/blue-adapter---16a_32a-

The question I have been unable to get answered is.

If I put a 32amp commando socket in my garage and have the mobile charger in the garage so it's protected from the elements and I run the main cable that plugs into the car under the garage door and plug it into the car. Is this safe?

For example, do I still need a PEN detector and DC leakage detection?

I believe these are required (at least the PEN) by regulation, and perhaps not for a mobile device? But is the same risk there? I suspect it is.

If it is recommended or required, if I put a PEN detector to the socket (or have one built into the consumer unit - I THINK you can buy them and it looks like it's advisable to replace my 25 year old plastic case consumer unit), that it would then be just as safe as an outdoor wall charger, potentially a little safer as the charging unit is inside the garage.

Appreciate comments on this, thanks

@Avendit gave the useful link. I usually make the point that using the UMC via a 13amp plug is just as safe or dangerous in respect of earthing issues as using the UMC with the 32amp commando adapter. This presumes that the 32amp socket is on an adequately rated circuit. For some reason nobody seems too bothered about pen devices and/or earth rods with the UMC until the prospect of using a commando socket comes up! (I’m just stirring things up … no way am I suggesting anyone shouldn’t follow the appropriate regs!)

 

[Pants]

@Avendit gave the useful link. I usually make the point that using the UMC via a 13amp plug is just as safe or dangerous in respect of earthing issues as using the UMC with the 32amp commando adapter. This presumes that the 32amp socket is on an adequately rated circuit. For some reason nobody seems too bothered about pen devices and/or earth rods with the UMC until the prospect of using a commando socket comes up! (I’m just stirring things up … no way am I suggesting anyone shouldn’t follow the appropriate regs!)

Exactly. I’ve charged with a 32A commando just wired into the consumer unit for nearly four years. Dumb as a box of rocks and 100% reliable. It doesn’t conform to current regs so I would never recommend anyone else does this, but it works for me and I’m happy it’s safe. As you point out it’s every bit as safe as a UMC.

 

[qwickshot]

The alternative to a pen fault detection device is an earth rod. Cheaper and easy to install if you have the space for one.

You don’t need a pen fault device if the car is in a garage.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Also why do you need the faster speed - 2kW is more than enough for 40% overnight charging.

With a 4 hours Off Peak tariff then 7kW gets you more charge, in that time. 2kW charging has greater losses than 7kW (I've forgotten the numbers, subject to verification but 10% losses is what I remember)

For someone doing very few miles then the losses won't pay for installation of a 7kW charger

 

[Avendit]

It's about 2amps you lose to the car, never mind electrical losses. 2/10 is 20% of your 2kw is being wasted just keeping the car powered up. 2/32 is only 6%.

 

[ewoodrick]

With a 4 hours Off Peak tariff then 7kW gets you more charge, in that time. 2kW charging has greater losses than 7kW (I've forgotten the numbers, subject to verification but 10% losses is what I remember)

For someone doing very few miles then the losses won't pay for installation of a 7kW charger

Sure, but do you need it? Most people don't

I'm charging BOTH of my Teslas by alternating charging to a 120V 15A (1440 w) plug. Rarely do I need anything more.

 

[WannabeOwner]

but do you need it? Most people don't

UK forum, so your scenario unlikely to be applicable. Cheapest rate here is a 4 hour slot, middle of the night. That would be 240V 13AMP, except that in practical terms you can't draw 100% of that, so typically 2.4kW which (@ 4 miles / kWh) is less than 40 miles. If you need to charge more than that (in UK) you would be paying 6x as much for Peak Rate (there are various rates in UK, and EV owners will have choice and can shop-around, but ... "typical" would be 4 hours Off Peak and all the rest is "Peak" and "very broad brush" £0.07 Off Peak and £0.40 Peak). Plus the losses are higher charging at low AMPs (compared to 7kW)

So, yes, anyone in UK doing more than 40 miles a day, regularly, would benefit from a 7kW dedicated EV charger

I would have thought that the average American would drive more than that? ... but perhaps you have same electricity tariff 24/7 so you could charge whenever parked at home, which would probably average more than 12 hours a day. 12 hours is more respectable but at your voltage (12 hours x 1440W and 4 miles/kWh) its still less than 70 miles.

 

[TechnoWatch]

With a 4 hours Off Peak tariff then 7kW gets you more charge, in that time. 2kW charging has greater losses than 7kW (I've forgotten the numbers, subject to verification but 10% losses is what I remember)

For someone doing very few miles then the losses won't pay for installation of a 7kW charger

It is a base of 200w to the car for it being awake at all times, obviously % loss will drop as total power increases.

Not everyone has the off-peak 4 hour tariff restriction... so was just trying to understand the position that the OP was in.

Just calculated the "very few miles amount" needed to justify a 7kw charger installation due to losses as being more than 200,000 (Assuming a price per kwh of 15p).... which means that cost saving is never a factor as that sort of mileage will be needing the faster rate of charging as 2kW is not enough to replenish the energy required by daily driving.

 

[TechnoWatch]

UK forum, so your scenario unlikely to be applicable. Cheapest rate here is a 4 hour slot, middle of the night. That would be 240V 13AMP, except that in practical terms you can't draw 100% of that, so typically 2.4kW which (@ 4 miles / kWh) is less than 40 miles. If you need to charge more than that (in UK) you would be paying 6x as much for Peak Rate (there are various rates in UK, and EV owners will have choice and can shop-around, but ... "typical" would be 4 hours Off Peak and all the rest is "Peak" and "very broad brush" £0.07 Off Peak and £0.40 Peak). Plus the losses are higher charging at low AMPs (compared to 7kW)

So, yes, anyone in UK doing more than 40 miles a day, regularly, would benefit from a 7kW dedicated EV charger

I would have thought that the average American would drive more than that? ... but perhaps you have same electricity tariff 24/7 so you could charge whenever parked at home, which would probably average more than 12 hours a day. 12 hours is more respectable but at your voltage (12 hours x 1440W and 4 miles/kWh) its still less than 70 miles.

Ovo does not have the 4 hour window and will charge for as long as needed and optimise when based on grid loading vs rate of charge and the time you need that charge complete by. So effectively ends up a flat rate of £0.10 per kWh for all EV charging at home.

 

[ewoodrick]

UK forum, so your scenario unlikely to be applicable. Cheapest rate here is a 4 hour slot, middle of the night. That would be 240V 13AMP, except that in practical terms you can't draw 100% of that, so typically 2.4kW which (@ 4 miles / kWh) is less than 40 miles. If you need to charge more than that (in UK) you would be paying 6x as much for Peak Rate (there are various rates in UK, and EV owners will have choice and can shop-around, but ... "typical" would be 4 hours Off Peak and all the rest is "Peak" and "very broad brush" £0.07 Off Peak and £0.40 Peak). Plus the losses are higher charging at low AMPs (compared to 7kW)

So, yes, anyone in UK doing more than 40 miles a day, regularly, would benefit from a 7kW dedicated EV charger

I would have thought that the average American would drive more than that? ... but perhaps you have same electricity tariff 24/7 so you could charge whenever parked at home, which would probably average more than 12 hours a day. 12 hours is more respectable but at your voltage (12 hours x 1440W and 4 miles/kWh) its still less than 70 miles.

I didn't realize that time of day billing was existent everywhere in the UK. (seems as if someone else said it wasn't)

I'm getting 5 mph at 1440W in real life, not sure how you only get 4.
And by the way, when I said 120V @ 15A, and then indicated 1440 watts, that is 80% derated and actually using 120V @12A.

From New survey reveals large regional differences in workers’ commuting experience - SME News and confirmed from some other locations75% 23 miles is the average commute round trip. Only 14% travelled over 42 miles a day.

So only 14% would benefit from a 7kW dedicated EV charger.

My point is that while a faster charger is nice, it isn't a requirement for most people. Even if it doesn't fill 100% of your weekly needs, stopping by a fast charger, maybe once a week can make charging and standard house current a definite possibility.

I suspect that there ais a sizable numberof people for which getting a charger to the garage is really expensive. There's also a number for which their current panel doesn't have the capacity to add anything, and even if you put a new panel in, the power company doesn't have enough capacity to give you more.

 

[TechnoWatch]

I'm getting 5 mph at 1440W in real life, not sure how you only get 4.
And by the way, when I said 120V @ 15A, and then indicated 1440 watts, that is 80% derated and actually using 120V @12A.

The comparison is 1440w that you are getting (120V@12A) in US vs 2300w that we get in the UK (230V@10A) - Both both derated for continuous load.

in mph, that equates to ~5mph for US and ~8mph UK (assuming 200w needed for keeping the car awake and an efficiency of 250wh/mile).

So that does make a significant difference to the % that would need a dedicated charger...

Assuming 10h charging time,

US: 50 miles per day to keep up
UK: 80 miles per day to keep up

In the UK, that would mean a really tiny fraction of users actually NEED a faster charger to keep things topped up for daily driving (There are other factors that could make it worthwhile... location convenience, multiple cars, 2 back to back long commutes a week etc.).

 

[PITA]

...My point is that while a faster charger is nice, it isn't a requirement for most people. Even if it doesn't fill 100% of your weekly needs, stopping by a fast charger, maybe once a week can make charging and standard house current a definite possibility.

There's also a number for which their current panel doesn't have the capacity to add anything, and even if you put a new panel in, the power company doesn't have enough capacity to give you more.

I may have gone a bit overboard then...

2 x 22kW very fast wall chargers
1 x 7kW fast wall charger
1 x 32 Amp Commando UMC charger

None of which are wired into our home consumer unit (as that's now full with other stuff).

But I do have a seperate 3 Phase distribution board that's fairly empty.

The 7kW charger and 32 Amp Commando Socket are both wired into the Tesla Gateway 2 unit. One on backup side, and one on Grid Tied side.

The Tesla Gateway is very good for this stuff.

National Grid have told me now that our house is on the very limit for Voltage Drop acceptance... so I can't add anything else.

 

[PITA]

In the UK, that would mean a really tiny fraction of users actually NEED a faster charger to keep things topped up for daily driving (There are other factors that could make it worthwhile... location convenience, multiple cars, 2 back to back long commutes a week etc.).

I approached fast chargers in a completely different way.

For me, it was about getting the most electricity I could during the cheap rate periods at Home... suspecting that in the future, cheap rate periods could be reduced.

Upgrading to 3 Phase assisted here a lot. Because now you don't have the 'load balancing' stranglehold that Single Phase restricts you to.

Being able to charge your home batteries, and charge two cars quickly, and run your house... all at the same time during cheap rate Grid use is a gamechanger.

It's also proven extremely useful during family emergencies like daily hospital visits where going straight home is preferable to sitting at a Tesla Supercharger site late at night.

Two 22kW chargers means my Wife and I can plug our cars in, and not be concerned about who gets power or when... set and forget. It's nicer.

 

[Sparkeur]

Exactly. I’ve charged with a 32A commando just wired into the consumer unit for nearly four years. Dumb as a box of rocks and 100% reliable. It doesn’t conform to current regs so I would never recommend anyone else does this, but it works for me and I’m happy it’s safe. As you point out it’s every bit as safe as a UMC.

Albeit in France but exactly how I've done it for the last 4 years as well.