200 miles review: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4

[akveluru]

This seems crazy high to me?

I've also got a 2018 LR AWD (with boost) and am running the PS4 AS, and getting like 280-285 wh/mi average.... was ~265 average on the OEM MXM4s on stock 18s without the aero covers on.

My driving is typically like 80-90% highway at speeds in the 70-80 mph range, then local roads in the 35-55 range for the rest.

Thanks for confirming that this is abnormally high - I'm also running with the aero wheels with the covers off but I decided to go wider with 245/45R18s. I was getting about 280-285 wh/mi (cruising at 80mph) with the CC2s so when I switched to the PS4 AS, I was really disappointed by the really high consumption that I was seeing...

Right before getting the new tires, I also upgraded the shocks with the Unplugged Autocross Adjustable Dampers and replaced the worn out FUCAs with new OEM ones and did a quick brake job to check the pad wear and clean out any accumulated dust in the calipers. I verified that the brakes aren't dragging too since ScanMyTesla reports accurate brake temps that match ambient while cruising on the highway.

I even went back to the alignment shop and had them check it and add 0.25 degrees of toe in which seemed to make a small improvement to efficiency, but the shop is clueless when it comes to EVs.

The only other mods on the car are the Ingenext Ghost module (I've been driving as chill so I can to remove this as a variable), upgraded front and rear sway bars set to the middle firmness setting, and I replaced the stock fabric aero covers with aluminum ones to protect the front of the battery pack.

I've had these mods on the car for a while before switching tires, so I'm suspecting that it could possibly be an issue with the rake angle of the car causing additional lift and dropping the efficiency, but I measured the ride height on all four corners to be within 1/4" of each other.

Anyone have any other ideas on what I can try before taking the car to Tesla and paying their insanely high diagnostic fee?

 

[STbreaker]

I had a set of of PS4 AS. I found the handling in general felt better than the stock. I didn’t notice a significant difference in road noise or enough change in power consumption to care.

After about 25K miles I needed to replace. Tire shop tried to upsell me into the “Tesla rated” version of AS3s. I decided to stay with the same tire.

 

[Tessaract]

We put on the AS4 on our mid range model 3. Have 700 miles on them and our efficiency had dropped as described above. MPGe averaging about 145 on worn MXM4 vs 111 on new AS4s. Will say they ride nice

Not well known to normal people perhaps, but auto engineers know that worn tires have lower rolling resistance than new tires. It's becuase there is less tread rubber (in the crown of the tire) in worn tires, and therefore less hysteretic loss in that rubber.

 

[dfwatt]

Thanks for confirming that this is abnormally high - I'm also running with the aero wheels with the covers off but I decided to go wider with 245/45R18s. I was getting about 280-285 wh/mi (cruising at 80mph) with the CC2s so when I switched to the PS4 AS, I was really disappointed by the really high consumption that I was seeing...

Right before getting the new tires, I also upgraded the shocks with the Unplugged Autocross Adjustable Dampers and replaced the worn out FUCAs with new OEM ones and did a quick brake job to check the pad wear and clean out any accumulated dust in the calipers. I verified that the brakes aren't dragging too since ScanMyTesla reports accurate brake temps that match ambient while cruising on the highway.

I even went back to the alignment shop and had them check it and add 0.25 degrees of toe in which seemed to make a small improvement to efficiency, but the shop is clueless when it comes to EVs.

The only other mods on the car are the Ingenext Ghost module (I've been driving as chill so I can to remove this as a variable), upgraded front and rear sway bars set to the middle firmness setting, and I replaced the stock fabric aero covers with aluminum ones to protect the front of the battery pack.

I've had these mods on the car for a while before switching tires, so I'm suspecting that it could possibly be an issue with the rake angle of the car causing additional lift and dropping the efficiency, but I measured the ride height on all four corners to be within 1/4" of each other.

Anyone have any other ideas on what I can try before taking the car to Tesla and paying their insanely high diagnostic fee?

Can you post your alignment specs? Adding 0.25° of toe in is actually a lot. You want be running basically zero toe in in front. Spec calls for a very minimal toe out or very little to no toe in. Rear spec is slightly toed in but again you going to do better with zero toe in. Stickier and wider tires might magnify efficiency losses stemming from bad toe settings.

 

[brkaus]

Just put these tires on our 2018 3LR. Pretty big hit to the range so far, but only 300 miles. Handles much better, esp on wet roads.

 

[Tessaract]

Wanted to chime in and say that I recently switched to PS4 AS from CrossClimate 2s. I’ve put on about 3k miles so far and overall it’s been a mixed bag.

Efficiency is about 10-15% lower that the CC2s which was a bit more of a hit than I was expecting. I was getting about 300 wh/mi on the CC2s and that has increased to about 350-380wh/mi depending on the soles that I’m cruising at.

It is fact that new tires have higher rolling resistance than worn tires. In fact, rolling resistance decreases about 20% as a tire wears and tread rubber is removed. So even if you put the exact same brand new tires on your car, you should not be surprised with up to 20% more rolling resistance.

That's the simplest and most likely explanation for your decreased range with new tires. Of course, your new tires may have inherently higher or lower rolling resistance as your old tires did when new, but you can only determine that by comparing tires with the exact same amount of tread remaining. Tire pressure also has a big influence on rolling resistance, but I'm assuming you have used the same tire pressure on the old and new tires? It's very unlikely your alignment changed with mounting new tires.

 

[Tessaract]

This seems crazy high to me?

I've also got a 2018 LR AWD (with boost) and am running the PS4 AS, and getting like 280-285 wh/mi average.... was ~265 average on the OEM MXM4s on stock 18s without the aero covers on.

My driving is typically like 80-90% highway at speeds in the 70-80 mph range, then local roads in the 35-55 range for the rest.

Probably explained by new vs old tires. Tire rolling resistance can decrease by 20% as a tire wears. See my reply to akveluru.

 

[akveluru]

Probably explained by new vs old tires. Tire rolling resistance can decrease by 20% as a tire wears. See my reply to akveluru.

I have about 6000 miles on these tires already, and my efficiency (with the heat off) is still ~330 wh/mi. When the tires were new, I was seeing closer to 350 wh/mi so there is some merit to newer tires having a breaking in period, but I don’t think that’s the only factor I’m dealing with here…

I unfortunately don’t have a proper printout of the alignment since the shop just gave me a bunch of scribbles on a piece of paper. I think at this point it’s worth taking it into the Service Center (2 hours away from where I live) to have them take a look at it.

 

[insaneoctane]

I need new tires. This will be my 3rd set. 1st and 2nd was OEM MXM4. I'm at 80K, so 40K is what I get with my 2018 RWD LR. I'm seriously considering the AS4 knowing that they will likely decrease my efficiency by 5% to 15%. I, personally, don't have any objection to MXM4 other than price and the inconvenience of acoustic foam during repair. I tend to obsess over watt/mi more than most because I'm a geek, but also realize that none of that would matter IF I had a panic stop and needed maximum stopping performance. But, I can currently get AS4s for $237 per tire vs MXM4 for $301. My calcs show anything with less than 12% efficiency loss is breakeven (or savings) for price difference vs additional cost of energy consumption.

% efficiency loss	Miles breakeven
5%	93,091
6%	77,576
7%	66,494
8%	58,182
9%	51,717
10%	46,545
11%	42,314
12%	38,788
13%	35,804
14%	33,247
15%	31,030

Willing to try AS4 for 40K and see if they're are better EV tire choices next time. Honestly surprised with how many tires can be sold for this car, how few good options for performance /efficiency /noise there really are!

 

[brkaus]

You can get mxm4 from other places without the foam. I do like the AS4 performance.

 

[Fdo2]

I need new tires. This will be my 3rd set. 1st and 2nd was OEM MXM4. I'm at 80K, so 40K is what I get with my 2018 RWD LR. I'm seriously considering the AS4 knowing that they will likely decrease my efficiency by 5% to 15%. I, personally, don't have any objection to MXM4 other than price and the inconvenience of acoustic foam during repair. I tend to obsess over watt/mi more than most because I'm a geek, but also realize that none of that would matter IF I had a panic stop and needed maximum stopping performance. But, I can currently get AS4s for $237 per tire vs MXM4 for $301. My calcs show anything with less than 12% efficiency loss is breakeven (or savings) for price difference vs additional cost of energy consumption.

% efficiency loss	Miles breakeven
5%	93,091
6%	77,576
7%	66,494
8%	58,182
9%	51,717
10%	46,545
11%	42,314
12%	38,788
13%	35,804
14%	33,247
15%	31,030

Willing to try AS4 for 40K and see if they're are better EV tire choices next time. Honestly surprised with how many tires can be sold for this car, how few good options for performance /efficiency /noise there really are!

After 3900 miles on the new 18 in. AS4s, I am averaging 294 wh/mi v. 272 with the OEM MXM4s. So I am experiencing an 8% increase in energy consumption. Handling, responsivenesses, etc. are improved. The AS4s also cost significantly less than the stock tires as you note. I remind myself that my monthly electricity consumption, even with the less energy efficient tires, is $54 v. the $300 I would have been spending on gasoline with my prior car (plus maintenance). Only regret is that I wish I had bought a set of AS4s for my wife’s M3 instead of getting her the stock 19 in. Continentals again.

 

[pure9]

I just got the AS4 and my efficiency went from 256wh/mi lifetime to 350wh/mi from MXM4 to AS4. I’ve only had it for about 200 miles but that’s a big hit. I’m really hoping this gets better over time.

 

[dfwatt]

I just got the AS4 and my efficiency went from 256wh/mi lifetime to 350wh/mi from MXM4 to AS4. I’ve only had it for about 200 miles but that’s a big hit. I’m really hoping this gets better over time.

It will. But it will still be a hit. Probably about 30 maybe as many as 40 watt hours per mile. I'm assuming you're using the same Aero 18-in wheels? I'm also assuming you do a lot of high-speed highway driving with those numbers? Just keep in mind you're going from a tire where range and efficiency was the top design priority along with low noise and quiet ride to a tire where performance is the top priority, ride a secondary priority and range tertiary. Tires are still one of the best illustrations of how technological design is often jiggling and balancing a bunch of trade-offs.

 

[drtimhill]

I just got the AS4 and my efficiency went from 256wh/mi lifetime to 350wh/mi from MXM4 to AS4. I’ve only had it for about 200 miles but that’s a big hit. I’m really hoping this gets better over time.

it till get better (I saw the same thing) .. all new tires are sticky at first, which makes the car do extra work.

 

[dfwatt]

it till get better (I saw the same thing) .. all new tires are sticky at first, which makes the car do extra work.

More tread squirm and stiffer sidewalls for the first few thousand miles not so much sticky treads in a strict sense. Tread squirm exists for a while until the tread depth starts deleting but the sidewall loosens up more quickly leading to less rolling resistance. The reason we know it's not sticky Treads is that new tires are also poorer at cornering again probably because of high tread depth and less contact patch stability under load.

 

[XPsionic]

Is there any real world rolling resistance test or Model 3 owner comparison between AS4 and the DWS6+? They seem more or less equal in most ways, but DWS6+ is perhaps a bit quieter and less capable in the snow. I'm about to get new tires and I'm basically down to choosing between these 2, leaning towards the DWS6+ due to slightly lower price and lower noise.

 

[Pbaker609]

Is there any real world rolling resistance test or Model 3 owner comparison between AS4 and the DWS6+? They seem more or less equal in most ways, but DWS6+ is perhaps a bit quieter and less capable in the snow. I'm about to get new tires and I'm basically down to choosing between these 2, leaning towards the DWS6+ due to slightly lower price and lower noise.

Wish I took photos of my efficiency numbers when I went down to 18's with AS4's on my 2020 performance for 10k miles. I just went down to 18's with DWS06+ on my 2023 performance yesterday so it would be interesting to compare once I put some mileage on these tires.

 

[dfwatt]

Is there any real world rolling resistance test or Model 3 owner comparison between AS4 and the DWS6+? They seem more or less equal in most ways, but DWS6+ is perhaps a bit quieter and less capable in the snow. I'm about to get new tires and I'm basically down to choosing between these 2, leaning towards the DWS6+ due to slightly lower price and lower noise.

Several interesting sources on that question. You can Google the genuinely excellent UK Tyre review guy, Tyre reviews, tests and ratings - Tyre Reviews and Tests who's mostly focused on performance and overall envelope of abilities but he also indexes rolling resistance and fuel consumption. There's also increasing attention by other sources including of course Tire rack. One of the things you have to throw into the mix of course is the aerodynamics of the wheel. A big part of the increased range in the long range model 3 is not just the aero covers which are significant but the fact that the wheel itself is only 18 in. This generates less turbulence especially with the aero covers. People think mistakenly think that the range hit is just coming from the tire. Not true.

https://www.tirerack.com/landing/fuel_efficiency.jsp?gclid=Cj0KCQiA9YugBhCZARIsAACXxeI6jVCMToCz0UhMIxy7HqeF46tsIwcecf67Lup88JLPmI30GdhKgrgaAt66EALw_wcB&ef_id=Cj0KCQiA9YugBhCZARIsAACXxeI6jVCMToCz0UhMIxy7HqeF46tsIwcecf67Lup88JLPmI30GdhKgrgaAt66EALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920227!b!!g!!tire%20low%20rolling%20resistance&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[XPsionic]

Several interesting sources on that question. You can Google the genuinely excellent UK Tyre review guy, Tyre reviews, tests and ratings - Tyre Reviews and Tests who's mostly focused on performance and overall envelope of abilities but he also indexes rolling resistance and fuel consumption. There's also increasing attention by other sources including of course Tire rack. One of the things you have to throw into the mix of course is the aerodynamics of the wheel. A big part of the increased range in the long range model 3 is not just the aero covers which are significant but the fact that the wheel itself is only 18 in. This generates less turbulence especially with the aero covers. People think mistakenly think that the range hit is just coming from the tire. Not true.

https://www.tirerack.com/landing/fuel_efficiency.jsp?gclid=Cj0KCQiA9YugBhCZARIsAACXxeI6jVCMToCz0UhMIxy7HqeF46tsIwcecf67Lup88JLPmI30GdhKgrgaAt66EALw_wcB&ef_id=Cj0KCQiA9YugBhCZARIsAACXxeI6jVCMToCz0UhMIxy7HqeF46tsIwcecf67Lup88JLPmI30GdhKgrgaAt66EALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920227!b!!g!!tire%20low%20rolling%20resistance&gclsrc=aw.ds

On tyrereview's 2022 test,
As4 rolling resistance is +8.72 kg / t
dws06 plus is +9.75 kg / t

They actually made a typo and listed the dws06 at 0.975, which is impossible.

Looks like as4 is slightly more efficient if every other test condition remains the same.

 

[pure9]

It will. But it will still be a hit. Probably about 30 maybe as many as 40 watt hours per mile. I'm assuming you're using the same Aero 18-in wheels? I'm also assuming you do a lot of high-speed highway driving with those numbers? Just keep in mind you're going from a tire where range and efficiency was the top design priority along with low noise and quiet ride to a tire where performance is the top priority, ride a secondary priority and range tertiary. Tires are still one of the best illustrations of how technological design is often jiggling and balancing a bunch of trade-offs.

You’re right in your assumptions - 18 inch with aeros and mostly highway driving around 75mph. I love the performance of the tires. I think that’s a big hit in range. Before I got these tires I read reviews saying that there’s only a 5-8% efficiency decrease. But anything over that I don’t think I’m willing to take. I might talk to Costco and see if they can replace the tires with MXM4’s within the 30 days return window. I think I’d appreciate more range over performance.