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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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Is anyone thinking like me, that this may a good time to sell all stocks? The market is at all time highs and leaving politics aside, except as it relates to stocks, it looks like something big from Mueller is about to drop. Flynn's and and Papadopoulos' plea deals make this clear to me, especially since Flynn said he has when he was looking for immunity. Now he's a convicted felon so it seems Mueller knows his story, and still got a conviction, so it must be some story that goes beyond just obstruction. Then again, I could be reading it wrong but I don't think so and if something big drops, or if Trump fires Mueller before it drops, what happens to the markets? I guess we can get some guidance from the past
My concerns are:
trump tries to fire Mueller.

trump does something really stupid like starting a nuclear war with Korea.

My concern with impeachment is that I believe that it will fail. I believe that the danger he poses is much greater than the risk of impeachment.

The republican wealth transfer plan passes. It’s pretty clear to me that it will damage the economy in the long run. The questions are how long will it take and how long will it take before the market figures that out.

My financial concern is that I’m not sure if holding options is smart now.
 
Chamath Palihapitiya says Elon Musk is the 'most important entrepreneur of our generation'
More on the video.

Social Capital founder and CEO Chamath Palihapitiya told CNBC on Tuesday he's "massively long" Tesla convertible bonds.

"Why the convertible bonds? Again, it's the safest and surest way to bet on Elon Musk, who I just fundamentally think is the most important entrepreneur of our generation," said Palihapitiya, whose firm has $2.6 billion in assets under management.

Palihapitiya said he's known the Tesla CEO for a long time. Musk is "truly putting every single dollar where his mouth is," he said.

"The guy is trying to make us an interplanetary species, get us off of oil, reduce traffic. And this is where I don't understand when like people like [Jim] Chanos come out and say you know, this company is a fraud," Palihapitiya told "Squawk Box.

"I don't understand what he's talking about," Palihapitiya said. "There's nothing fraudulent about this guy. There's nothing fraudulent about the technology. This is just like people wanting to dance on failure, and I just don't get it."
 
Chamath Palihapitiya says Elon Musk is the 'most important entrepreneur of our generation'
More on the video.

Social Capital founder and CEO Chamath Palihapitiya told CNBC on Tuesday he's "massively long" Tesla convertible bonds.

"Why the convertible bonds? Again, it's the safest and surest way to bet on Elon Musk, who I just fundamentally think is the most important entrepreneur of our generation," said Palihapitiya, whose firm has $2.6 billion in assets under management.

Palihapitiya said he's known the Tesla CEO for a long time. Musk is "truly putting every single dollar where his mouth is," he said.

"The guy is trying to make us an interplanetary species, get us off of oil, reduce traffic. And this is where I don't understand when like people like [Jim] Chanos come out and say you know, this company is a fraud," Palihapitiya told "Squawk Box.

"I don't understand what he's talking about," Palihapitiya said. "There's nothing fraudulent about this guy. There's nothing fraudulent about the technology. This is just like people wanting to dance on failure, and I just don't get it."

Chanos is the real fraud.
 
Chamath Palihapitiya says Elon Musk is the 'most important entrepreneur of our generation'
More on the video.

Social Capital founder and CEO Chamath Palihapitiya told CNBC on Tuesday he's "massively long" Tesla convertible bonds.

"Why the convertible bonds? Again, it's the safest and surest way to bet on Elon Musk, who I just fundamentally think is the most important entrepreneur of our generation," said Palihapitiya, whose firm has $2.6 billion in assets under management.

Palihapitiya said he's known the Tesla CEO for a long time. Musk is "truly putting every single dollar where his mouth is," he said.

"The guy is trying to make us an interplanetary species, get us off of oil, reduce traffic. And this is where I don't understand when like people like [Jim] Chanos come out and say you know, this company is a fraud," Palihapitiya told "Squawk Box.

"I don't understand what he's talking about," Palihapitiya said. "There's nothing fraudulent about this guy. There's nothing fraudulent about the technology. This is just like people wanting to dance on failure, and I just don't get it."

He just nailed it to the point!
 
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PepsiCo makes biggest public pre-order of Tesla Semis: 100 trucks

Reuters - PepsiCo Inc (PEP.N) has reserved 100 of Tesla Inc’s (TSLA.O) new electric Semi trucks, the largest-known order of the big rig, as the maker of Mountain Dew soda and Doritos chips seeks to reduce fuel costs and fleet emissions, a company executive said on Tuesday.

Of course they have to try to take a shot:
Tesla has been trying to convince the trucking community that it can build an affordable electric big rig with the range and cargo capacity to compete with relatively low-cost, time-tested diesel trucks.

Sounds good to me:
Early orders reflect uncertainty over how the market for electric commercial vehicles will develop. About 260,000 heavy-duty Class-8 trucks are produced in North America annually, according to FTR, an industry economics research firm.

PepsiCo’s 100 trucks add to orders by more than a dozen companies such as Wal-Mart Stores Inc (WMT.N), fleet operator J.B. Hunt Transport Services Inc (JBHT.O), and foodservice distribution company Sysco Corp (SYY.N). Reservations to date are at 267 Tesla trucks, according to a Reuters tally.

PepsiCo intends to deploy Tesla Semis for shipments of snack foods and beverages between manufacturing and distribution facilities and direct to retailers within the 500-mile (800-km) range promised by Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk.
<Snip>
 
Sorry for a beginner's question but why TSLA is running up two days in a row? I was able to add some shares at 302 or so.

Nobody knows but some will claim they do,

. This is just like people wanting to dance on failure, and I just don't get it."

This quote sums up what I believe is the core of shorts character (excluding those getting paid to distort). In addition, they seem to think it makes them smarter if they call a failure ahead of time vs a success.
 
I’m not saying the potential isn’t there. I’m just saying in 2020, there won’t be much revenue at all from Tesla Semi and it will likely be a slow ramp.
Why a slow ramp? Tesla currently some pack production problems. That’s caused them to totally blow the TE ramp and is also slowing the M3 ramp. Elon has stated that he believes that they can turn production into a strength of Tesla. A huge part of Semi production will be pack production. If Tesla is still struggling with pack production and it takes them more than a year to ramp production to produce 50k Semi’s a year we’ve got a huge fundamental problem. I’m betting that Tesla will solve that problem.
I probably need to explain further. What drives iPhone sales? Is it the nice hardware or is it iOS and the app ecosystem that iOS brings together? I’d posit that more important than the hardware (ie, think Tesla Semi), the software is more important. It’s the combination of the software that Tesla brings, including autonomous driving and such. But probably more important is the app ecosystem that Tesla’s software will bring together, from the backend to the front end. What the Tesla Semi driver will see in the Semi will be the front-end software system (ie, think iOS), but there’s a lot that needs to take place to bring all the varying logistic systems and apps together to work seamlessly from the backend as well. Thus, in order to bring the perfect front end, Tesla needs to make a platform. And making and executing on this global logistics platform will probably be much harder than the hardware (ie, Semi).
I don’t believe that is a valid comparison. With cell phones people had a choice of which cell phone they wanted to purchase. When the Tesla Semi launches the choice will be between the Tesla Semi and the Mercedes ( etc.) medium range trucks. It’s not even a competitive option!

Logistics companies will have massive savings by using electric Semi’s. When they have a choice of competitive electric semi’s (which will be at least 3-4 years) the possibility will become that the software can be the reason to buy the Tesla Semi.
 
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Why a slow ramp? Tesla currently some pack production problems. That’s caused them to totally blow the TE ramp and is also slowing the M3 ramp. Elon has stated that he believes that they can turn production into a strength of Tesla. A huge part of Semi production will be pack production. If Tesla is still struggling with pack production and it takes them more than a year to ramp production to produce 50k Semi’s a year we’ve got a huge fundamental problem. I’m betting that Tesla will solve that problem.

:) I don’t think I’ll convince anyone here. It’s obvious to me that the timelines Elon set are aspirational timelines and further it’s in he best interests of Tesla to ramp slowly. Think about Tesla Energy, almost everyone here thought it would ramp fast. Tesla solar roof as well. New tech like this takes time. There’s a lot of moving parts. Same goes for the Tesla Semi. I don’t think most here appreciate or understand the complexity involved in launching and ramping the Semi. It’s not just about battery packs. But it’s also about achieving the costs. And it’s about new platform architecture. And it’s about the software that brings all the logisitics together for the driver and logistics companies. And it’s about testing and developing the Megachargers. What you saw at the Tesla Semi was largely a proof of concept. Now Tesla has to buckle down and start developing it and executing. This takes a lot of time. Further, Tesla Semi isn’t even in the top 3 priorities of Tesla in my opinion over the next few years. First priority, ramping Model 3 from N America base. Second priority, launching China factory. Third priority, developing and launching Model Y. Fourth priority, launching European factory. After that it becomes less clear. But you could argue even Autopilot/autonomous driving as a higher priority for Tesla than Semi. It I see Tesla Semi as 5th priority at best over next few years. This means things get pushed back. Think about the original Roadster battery upgrade and how long it took to get out. There are numerous other examples. Even when it’s the top priority it’s tough for Tesla to meet their super aggressive aspirational timelines. But when it’s priority #3 or lower, chances are super super low.
 
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The Financial Times reports today that Chinese battery manufacturers produced 31.5GWh of EV batteries in the first 9 months of this year, while take up by car manufacturers was only 14.7GWh in the same period. Some of that is due to a mismatch in chemistries, but it is another clear sign of a glut in the battery market.

(Not from the article, but related sources) In 2016, top Chinese Lithium Ion manufacturers had a total turnover of just under $12B for over 43GWh. With the glut in the market and continued capacity build out, average prices are under relentless downwards pressure. I expect significant consolidation and the emergence of just few super-producers each having several tens of gigawatthours yearly capacity.
I think it’s ludicrous to suggest that there’s a glut of high quality battery packs for EV’s at an affordable price. I believe that they could sell all the high quality EV packs that they could produce at about $125 per kWh which is higher than Tesla’s cost.

When the OEM’s can buy high quality battery packs for a similar cost compared to building ICE’s they will jump on it, particularly in China with their upcoming mandates.
 
Chanos is the real fraud.
Elon Musk: "200k M3's delivered in 2017"

1yr later

Elon Musk: "5k/wk by end of 2017"

End of 2017

120 cars in a parking lot.

and within the last 1.5 years we've seen 3 capital raises just after each of the extreme goals being stated, declarations of "TE Ramp", Autopilot 2.0 will pay YOU for your car, promises of sold out solar roofs and the acquisition of his cousins' company at the moment it was about to financially bust.

if you don't see where some people could see that as fraud, then you are intentionally blind.
 
In a healthy economy we should be constantly increasing the money supply and devaluing money in people's pockets. Much better to encourage people to spend and/or invest the money in real goods and services, rather than hoarding paper. The alternative is deflation, which is historically universally ruinous (there are arguments about the mechanism by which it ruins everything, but it's agreed that it's ruinous).
The problem with that is that in the US at least our economy is dependent upon people buying nonessential items at an environmentally unsustainable rate.
 
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Good video, but I have to disagree with the solution.

The problem is, there is a theoretical limit to the throughput of a road, which is a function of speed limit and length of cars. If the speed limit is 65 mph and every car is 5 meters long, then your max throughput is 20k cars per hour in each lane because you can only fit that many cars in a 65 mile stretch, even if they leave no gap.

Autonomous cars can only increase the throughput marginally by reducing gaps and acceleration delays, and likely also increase the speed limit. But there will be increasingly more cars on the same number of roads, which means traffic will still continually become worse.

Which brings me to... The Boring Company.

The only way to solve traffic in the long term is to increase the number of roads. No one has thought of a way to do that besides Elon Musk.
 
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