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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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This is a hit piece below even Seeking Alpha gibberish for many reasons. I'll just start off with the fact that it's EV makers in China asking for their battery suppliers to slash their prices, not a statement of any kind from the battery suppliers themselves much less an announcement of a 40% price drop by these suppliers as the title heavily and falsely implies. There are plenty of other reasons the suggestion that this obsoletes the GF is blatant rubbish.

If there's a strong bear narrative, why don't they put aside the rubbish we've been fed prolifically for years and just spit out their real case for being bearish?
We also need to remember that almost all Chinese BEV battery production is probably not breaking-edge technology:
http://en.calb.cn/comm/?id-172.html is one producer, and then;
Company Profile | BYD makes their own batteries.
But, these guys are not stupid:
China the centre of lithium universe | MINING.com but keep in mind taht teh quoted article was written by somebody from International Lithium Corporation, so...
Top Lithium Mining Companies | Investing News this is a possibly less-biased source.

I do not suggest that SteveG3 is incorrect, in fact I probably agree mostly. while also being realistic enough to know taht the Chinese EV mandate is driving BEV production volumes for Cars, trucks, busses and more. With the monumental pollution problem in major Chinese cities the simultaneous move to BEV's and cleaning up the electrical grid will be transformative.

Anybody who doubts the Chinese ability to accomplish this need look no further than Chinese rail transport, including that astonishing maglev. My first trip to China was in ~1978, most recent 2016. Anybody who's observed the changes will not underestimate the transformative ability of the world's most populous country. Put another way, the Chinese car-buyer-market middle class are more numerous than the total population of the USA.

That said, I think China is more of an opportunity than a threat for Tesla.

Large question: President-elect Trump equates a "balance of payments deficit" with a "loss" seemingly not understanding that goods and services are received for that money so it might not be bad. Because of that conflation of 'deficit' and 'loss' Tesla is specifically at great risk for Chinese expansion. We must wait to see what happens. I mention this because the BEV, renewable energy production and electrical storage markets within China are clearly the largest in the world. Chinese producers will be major worldwide players simply due to that enormous domestic scale.

History: The industrial development of Germany, USA, Japan, Korea, UK and France were all initially built on domestic demand. Later all diversified internationally with varying degrees of success." 'ain't nothin' new under the sun".
Latin nihil sub sole novum, from the Hebrew אֵין כָּל חָדָשׁ תַּחַת הַשָּׁמֶשׁ ‎(en kol chadásh táchat hashámesh, “there is nothing new under the sun”), from Ecclesiastes 1:9.
copied from: there is nothing new under the sun - Wiktionary

Conclusion: The Chinese are coming, but that may actually be good news for Tesla. Tesla will go after highest tech, best in class. the Chinese market is almost axiomatically oriented to high volume, low cost in teh medium term. Argument against my thesis: Volvo, Faraday Future, evolution of BYD, among others.
 
The reason stuff is cheaper to manufacture in Asia is the cheap labor, that's the idea form all these Wall Street characters. The real question is how important are labor costs in a highly automated factory, I mean the guys from adidas are bringing textile manufacturing back to Europe and the US (Atlanta)
 
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Morgan Stanley Upgrades Tesla Motors (TSLA) to Overweight

"We still apply zero value to Tesla from its recently completed acquisition of Solarcity and zero value for Tesla Energy." Price target: $305

I think this is really lazy especially considering the recent news about DELIVERIES of large TE projects. It obviously has a material effect on valuation.

HOWEVER I believe pricing in Tesla Mobility at this stage is probably a bit premature. We all think this will be a huge opportunity for TSLA but given the technical and regulatory hurdles that will need to be overcome we are probably a couple of years away AT LEAST. i would price it in with A LOT of discount. Haven't read the whole report so maybe they already are and it's just big enough of an opportunity to have a significant impact on target price.

OVERALL: the two effects probably cancel out and the Price target is finally in the ballpark/reasonable.


EDIT: those analysts really are frauds.... Jonas's PTs have been fluctuating so wildly it's unbelievable. Tells a lot about the confidence level even he has in his research. Useless prostitutes to their institution's interests. Chinese wall my ass. /endrant
 
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I think this is really lazy especially considering the recent news about DELIVERIES of large TE projects. It obviously has a material effect on valuation.

HOWEVER I believe pricing in Tesla Mobility at this stage is probably a bit premature. We all think this will be a huge opportunity for TSLA but given the technical and regulatory hurdles that will need to be overcome we are probably a couple of years away AT LEAST. i would price it in with A LOT of discount. Haven't read the whole report so maybe they already are and it's just big enough of an opportunity to have a significant impact on target price.

OVERALL: the two effects probably cancel out and the Price target is finally in the ballpark/reasonable.
I tend to agree. $305 seems like a good conservative valuation, assuming Tesla fails to deliver on promises like it has failed to deliver in the past. (Especially when it comes to the model X.)

If there are no delays on the Model 3, and the ramp goes smoothly, $400-$500 USD is probably a more reasonable figure. More if the solar roof actually comes to market with meaningful volume in the middle of 2017.
 
premarket $247.

Remember:
a8aa92a18d1d372771739e76edef3e03.jpg
 
This article is written by Bertel Schmitt, the same guy who recently predicted Tesla will need to spend $28bln on showrooms and service centers by 2020.

This dude is more famous for a hat eating bet against Tesla which he lost. But he never ate a hat to follow through.

He has been writing absolute nonsense on Tesla for years now.
 
First, this forum isn't an echo chamber and to say such is disingenuous or ignorant. But just so you know echo chambers have a purpose and that is to create an echo. That doesn't make them bad y'all; it just makes them what they are.

If someone wants to come here and only hear positive thoughts on a Tesla Enthusiast's Forum then a) at least they're cognizant of where they are, and b) who are you to tell them they should want something different?

Will you now use the excuse that you're just trying to save them losing their money? That's noble if they asked for your input, otherwise you're just another person wanting people to conform to your ideals.
No, I'm one of the several that laments the obvious decrease in quality of this thread over the last few years. Many of the best posters have left for this very reason.
This is the TSLA investors section of the forums, not the circle jerk section. Most of the people that defend the echo chamber that this place becomes lose money well and fine enough on their own. I'm just here clinging to some hope that this thread returns to even a fraction of it's former glory.

As to b). Someone who gives a *sugar* and would like to keep making enormous returns in TSLA that doesn't want to skip through 4 pages a week about people calling any potential negative argument idiotic and assuming everyone who disagrees with them are paid shills.
 
This place has consistently been the best source for real information and analysis of all things Tesla. We've also consistently heard nonsense similar to yours from the beginning, and it's always been wrong, no matter how often it gets repeated.
I think you have me mistaken for someone else. To my knowledge I've never posted anything bearish beyond "I'm going to profit take her because I think analysts are idiots and the stock will go down short term"
 
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Yeah the "bull echo chamber" argument is tired and wrong. If a Bear posts a tired, 30x refuted bear argument it spawns 10 pages of refutation. Bulls don't repeat bull cases over and over to a bunch of "hallelujahs". That would be an echo chamber. Hell, if someone did come in here and post an Uber bullish article he would get a lot of eye-rolling and knee-jerk balancing. By weight, we consider Bearish developments way more than Bullish. That makes sense, given that if the community has a Bullish bias in their investments they would naturally be more interested in worrisome negative developments. It's nonsense to suggest that we only want to hear positive, reinforcing messages. If anything we bend cynical.
I get what you are saying, but can't help but think of how this thread has both initially noticed likely misses in delivery numbers in a few quarters then subsequently rationalized reasons why that would be wrong and come to a consensus that it's probably still going to meet with people pointing that out getting a "we've rehashed that plenty of times already" treatment. Q2 comes to mind.
 
btw... Adam Jonas has been known to upgrade and deliver very strong notes on TSLA within 24 and 48 hours of secondary announcements that MS then has direct dealings with... which is basically taking a dump on anything ethical... but he clearly doesn't care about ethics because he just keeps doing it... so let's see how this transpires.
you can disagree with a lot of things I say... but you can't disagree with this... AJ upgraded TSLA the very next day after MS priced the secondary in 2015... he did something similar in 2014 but on a Friday before MS announced a TSLA transaction on Monday... there's at least one more reference... and each one of them result in numerous commentaries from the rest of the analyst community... and he just keeps doing it.
 
you can disagree with a lot of things I say... but you can't disagree with this... AJ upgraded TSLA the very next day after MS priced the secondary in 2015... he did something similar in 2014 but on a Friday before MS announced a TSLA transaction on Monday... there's at least one more reference... and each one of them result in numerous commentaries from the rest of the analyst community... and he just keeps doing it.
Is anyone disagreeing?
 
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