2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

[3Victoria]

On average they are smarter than you probably plus they seem to like to meditate and roll in guilt.

Hmmm, probably not, actually -- I am one of the educated elite for better or worse. My mini-rant was over the top, but still has a solid basis. The wage gap is widening and has consequences. As is obvious, the rich, both people and corporations, have the means to make a difference (with their lobbying). The 'huddled masses' do too, but the results are rather poorly aimed and the casualties likely greater.

 

[Intl Professor]

I think we need to cool this discussion. In my view it is almost always wrong to put people into categories, even oneself. Obviously the rich, the poor, the white, the black, the young, the old, the great and evil, the great and good, include gradations of every shade, smell, taste, sound, touch and any other quality, are various and unique in concrete example. What is always important is to consider people as an end, not a means. (Martin Buber?)

But that there is class conflict, look at the telly today and how the framing of news by the current administration and demonstrators are missing the point intended by the other!

In the perspective of a career-life as a teacher about revolutions the first principle is "Revolutionaries do not create revolutions, regimes fall." We may be seeing that beginning today. I hope not but it has the smell of it.

Lenin is often cited as an example of a successful revolutionary and, indeed, his timing was brilliant. But he would be the first to say one must take advantage of situations created by others. That was his idea about the role of the party, "the midwife of revolution."

A principle of how to avoid revolution comes from Aristotle: bring distant dangers near, hence the tweet concerning Lindsey Graham and John McCain: "Senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III."

On the danger of war, the news of his elevating Stephen Banning to permanent membership while demoting the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence to membership "as needed" on the National Security Council's (NSC) "principals committee" is more ominous than the portent of today's demonstrations. Politics is the struggle control over peoples' picture of reality. Trump is insulating himself from the experts on war and intelligence in favor of a political advisor. I wonder whose idea this was?

 

[madodel]

I think we need to cool this discussion. In my view it is almost always wrong to put people into categories, even oneself. Obviously the rich, the poor, the white, the black, the young, the old, the great and evil, the great and good, include gradations of every shade, smell, taste, sound, touch and any other quality, are various and unique in concrete example. What is always important is to consider them as an end, not a means. Is that Martin Buber?

Is this your way of telling us to eat cake?

 

[AcesDealt]

Hmmm, probably not, actually -- I am one of the educated elite for better or worse. My mini-rant was over the top, but still has a solid basis. The wage gap is widening and has consequences. As is obvious, the rich, both people and corporations, have the means to make a difference (with their lobbying). The 'huddled masses' do too, but the results are rather poorly aimed and the casualties likely greater.

Yes but in regard to the consequences, there are more solutions than just to reduce wealth\wage gap by government redistribution. That's where people get stuck by being incurious on the problem. If employment continues to increase, wages will increase. If people are correctly lead to learn the skills the future economy needs (the kind of engineering at Tesla instead of making fun of nerds etc), then they will move into more valued labor categories. And further, even keeping the wage gap the same you can reduce the consequences by reducing the rhetoric that leads people to think ERRONEOUSLY that it's a bigger problem than it is (usually by thinking in zero-sum terms that the rich can only be richer by taking from everyone else, which is so so very common and so so wrong). Another solution is to encourage instead of deride the wealthy when they do positive things for others. Zuckerberg pledged to give away some crazy amount of his wealth, but the way he structured it I had more than one person just say 'oh it was just a tax dodge'.. smh.

My comment on your intelligence was based on your comment not really following directly from my own, but if you are an elite rolling in guilt (I bet you meditate\yoga too?), I'll change my assessment.

 

[kenliles]

Elon is getting political on twitter again. Makes me a bit nervous because of the propensity for people to get mindlessly angry in the face of truth or complexity, but aside from my investment i welcome people like him being involved.

Apart from the injustice of the order and how much pain it is causing innocent people...now it's distracting Elon from Tesla. Not good.

It's the cost part of the equation for accepting the council positions. He'll have to walk the line to net a positive which will be increasingly difficult- Of course it's not like this should surprise anyone, much less Elon. All his positions were well articulated during the election. It's hard to know if it will end up being worth the price (my concern); But I do think Elon will tackle it. I actually think the protests are going well. Chill...

From Battery Park: Best protestor

 

[kenliles]

Hyper loop live stream
Hyperloop

 

[myusername]

so what's it been... like 5 days since I went on my rant?... how's that Elon "cozying up" to T thing going?... T virtually destroyed the face of America in one week and Elon went from "Rex is a great guy!" to "umm... whoops."... how about you guys... change your mind on how great of a move Elon's making?... if any of you have Elon's ear... just tell him to back away slowly. If he stays in the spotlight on on T's hip... your stock is at risk... this is relevant to the short term move of macro and TSLA... it turns out... a lunatic in the white house can destroy the country and economy much faster than anyone predicted.

 

[CALGARYARSENAL]

so what's it been... like 5 days since I went on my rant?... how's that Elon "cozying up" to T thing going?... T virtually destroyed the face of America in one week and Elon went from "Rex is a great guy!" to "umm... whoops."... how about you guys... change your mind on how great of a move Elon's making?... if any of you have Elon's ear... just tell him to back away slowly. If he stays in the spotlight on on T's hip... your stock is at risk... this is relevant to the short term move of macro and TSLA... it turns out... a lunatic in the white house can destroy the country and economy much faster than anyone predicted.

Did you take your meds today? I remembered mine.

 

[myusername]

Did you take your meds today? I remembered mine.

just because I'm crazy doesn't mean I wasn't right.

 

[disagree]

so what's it been... like 5 days since I went on my rant?... how's that Elon "cozying up" to T thing going?... T virtually destroyed the face of America in one week and Elon went from "Rex is a great guy!" to "umm... whoops."... how about you guys... change your mind on how great of a move Elon's making?... if any of you have Elon's ear... just tell him to back away slowly. If he stays in the spotlight on on T's hip... your stock is at risk... this is relevant to the short term move of macro and TSLA... it turns out... a lunatic in the white house can destroy the country and economy much faster than anyone predicted.

Uber is taking a HUGE beating on social media with people cancelling their accounts at a rapid pace. Granted, uber's reputation had been suffering already and was perhaps ripe for the picking, but Elon is tied so closely to Tesla/SpaceX/etc that his personal statements could completely screw up his brands.

 

[3Victoria]

Nah.

 

[Mike Smith]

Uber is taking a HUGE beating on social media with people cancelling their accounts at a rapid pace. Granted, uber's reputation had been suffering already and was perhaps ripe for the picking, but Elon is tied so closely to Tesla/SpaceX/etc that his personal statements could completely screw up his brands.

Uber is taking a beating because they broke the NY taxi strike, which is seen as doing something actively negative. A lot of people don't like the idea of Musk associating with Trump but they at least realize he's trying to help. I think the bigger effect will be on conservatives, with whom Musk and Tesla's reputation will be bolstered by working with Trump. I don't think any fewer liberals will buy a Tesla, and now maybe some conservatives will at least consider one.

 

[racer26]

Uber is taking a beating because they broke the NY taxi strike, which is seen as doing something actively negative. A lot of people don't like the idea of Musk associating with Trump but they at least realize he's trying to help. I think the bigger effect will be on conservatives, with whom Musk and Tesla's reputation will be bolstered by working with Trump. I don't think any fewer liberals will buy a Tesla, and now maybe some conservatives will at least consider one.

I stand by my earlier observations. If there is no world left for Tesla to make better, and SpaceX to back up to Mars, then both companies are pointless and have failed in their missions. Is futzing around with Trump a distraction for Elon? Certainly, but I argue its a necessary one.

 

[Chris Fox]

so what's it been... like 5 days since I went on my rant?... how's that Elon "cozying up" to T thing going?... T virtually destroyed the face of America in one week and Elon went from "Rex is a great guy!" to "umm... whoops."... how about you guys... change your mind on how great of a move Elon's making?... if any of you have Elon's ear... just tell him to back away slowly. If he stays in the spotlight on on T's hip... your stock is at risk... this is relevant to the short term move of macro and TSLA... it turns out... a lunatic in the white house can destroy the country and economy much faster than anyone predicted.

So you sold your long position hoping Tesla would drop but it kept going up and up so now you're out and watching all our gains and you're bitter.

Just stop.

 

[hacer]

...
How do we know the world is better off if we take from achievers to subsidize the purchase of fancier cars? ..

I didn't realize that rich was synonymous with "achiever". Let's look at the achiever in chief, Donald Trump. He made his fortune risking money from banks (which are in turn risking other people's money ultimately guaranteed by the government). Whenever he lost, the losses were sociallized to the masses as the government bailed out he banks who actually took the loss. But when his investments paid off, he personally kept the gains. There are a hell of a lot of achievers in this country that have done the same, many fewer that have risked their own fortunes and actually made something. But yeah, let's be sure to keep letting all the "achievers" keep the money when they win and bail them out when they lose.

 

[hacer]

just because I'm crazy doesn't mean I wasn't right.

You haven't been proven right yet. It was (is) predictable that Trump will do crazy bad things, but that doesn't mean anybody who agrees to advise him will or should be held responsible for what he does. Musk said wait and see about Tlllerson which were still waiting on. The whole market could certainly tank based on the crazy crap that Trump does but there's no evidence yet that Tesla will suffer specific punishment. I don't think they will.

 

[SunCatcher]

so what's it been... like 5 days since I went on my rant?... how's that Elon "cozying up" to T thing going?... T virtually destroyed the face of America in one week and Elon went from "Rex is a great guy!" to "umm... whoops."... how about you guys... change your mind on how great of a move Elon's making?... if any of you have Elon's ear... just tell him to back away slowly. If he stays in the spotlight on on T's hip... your stock is at risk... this is relevant to the short term move of macro and TSLA... it turns out... a lunatic in the white house can destroy the country and economy much faster than anyone predicted.

Some of us choose to live fear.

Some of us don't.

 

[GBleck]

You haven't been proven right yet. It was (is) predictable that Trump will do crazy bad things, but that doesn't mean anybody who agrees to advise him will or should be held responsible for what he does. Musk said wait and see about Tlllerson which were still waiting on. The whole market could certainly tank based on the crazy crap that Trump does but there's no evidence yet that Tesla will suffer specific punishment. I don't think they will.

If twitter is any judge it has likely caused a few lost sales. Comes down to a balance of maintaining access in order to possibly positively influence policy vs the *sugar* brand optics of association with a *sugar* brand of *sugar*. SpaceX being a gov contractor complicates things but pissing of the federal government isn't going to help Tesla. They still have to move stuff in and out over the boarder. No good options only lesser bad ones.

 

[AcesDealt]

...Whenever he lost, the losses were sociallized to the masses as the government bailed out he banks who actually took the loss. But when his investments paid off, he personally kept the gains.

Why don't more people take this risk-free path to being billionaires?

 

[EnzoXYZ]

I didn't realize that rich was synonymous with "achiever". Let's look at the achiever in chief, Donald Trump. He made his fortune risking money from banks (which are in turn risking other people's money ultimately guaranteed by the government). Whenever he lost, the losses were sociallized to the masses as the government bailed out he banks who actually took the loss. But when his investments paid off, he personally kept the gains. There are a hell of a lot of achievers in this country that have done the same, many fewer that have risked their own fortunes and actually made something. But yeah, let's be sure to keep letting all the "achievers" keep the money when they win and bail them out when they lose.

Must have been all the rich that defaulted on their multimillion dollar loans that caused the housing crisis.