I definitely know that. My concern is that I’m right around 20,000 miles/30,000 km right now and my battery’s already had between 6-8% degradation, which on the chart puts me definitely near the bottom for that mileage.
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2017 MS 75D - Battery Pack degrading much faster than previous generations
- Thread starter n8vision
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- battery rated range
I definitely know that. My concern is that I’m right around 20,000 miles/30,000 km right now and my battery’s already had between 6-8% degradation, which on the chart puts me definitely near the bottom for that mileage.
Did this twice. No difference to rated range at 100%. Thanks. Frustrated at Tesla. I’m considering switching to an inferior hut longer range m3 now because I get close to the wire (10% or below) on road trips more and more as the battery looses capacity.
Oldschool496
Member
These two stories are so similar to mine, both these cars though are a year apart and differing in AP/operating systems I would assume. I have to conclude this is all normal as its a repeated scenario not divided even by year.
My car is April 2016 75D build refresh Showroom car less then 50 miles new when I got it. 259 down to 237-38, 2.3 years later and 30,000 miles.
In November 18, I upgraded to version 9 lost 7-8 miles max rated range in that one moment. No reason for that I can even think of other then when it was upgraded it was at the service center and they dialed it back. Now I know thats more then likely not the case.
I have ditched to whole idea of ever charging again to any maximum. Its not necessary/unless I really have to for some rare reason. There is so much access to charging/supercharging that most of all travel long distance rests in the 180 to 210 range or less before I have to get out of the car anyway for whatever reason.
I arrive as empty as safely possible 35-50 miles sometime less, get my 94Kw charging in 25 mins I am on the road again at 180-195 rated range.
Now, if it ever slips below 20% full charge(I'll check it every six months), well I'll be having acute conversations with those concerned. From now on, I'm driving the pants off it.
The Babying it has ended, the bearings are properly seated etc. If its going to fail or get worse, no matter what I seem to do or all the examples in this Thread seem to do has no change in the facts of these batteries. Drive it and let Tesla take the burden if it does not work out well in this warranty or the extended.
Safe Travels
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Holy Mackerel, Batman that's higher than average I think- My 70D(240 rated) got 231 at it's lowest at 70K miles and got it to 234 rated by doing some 10%-100% charges. Tesla replaced mine with a 75 that's getting 250 rated, hoping it does just as well as my 70 pack did
Correction to this post I made previously. Based on some new stuff I've learned, I'm convinced the displayed rated miles is simply the reported "Nominal Energy Remaining" multiplied by the EPA Wh/m. For example, the last time I charged my 85D to 100% it was reporting Nominal Energy Remaining of 76.0 kWh with 262 displayed rated miles. The 85D uses 290 Wh/m for its EPA range, so 76000/290 = 262.0689. I'd say that matches (almost) exactly with the 262 displayed rated miles.
Why the displayed rated range can change depends on a few things:
1. This is obvious but battery degradation. As BMS reports a lower "Nominal Energy Remaining", you'll get lower rated miles displayed.
2. Changes to the algorithm. Can't prove this one, but there's been reports in the past of the displayed rated miles changing after an update. Doesn't seem unrealistic to think they've tweaked the algorithm over the years.
3. Your car doesn't always charge to the same kWh at 100%. For example, my car reports a "Nominal Full Pack" of 76.3 kWh but as I mentioned above when I charged to 100%, "Nominal Remaining" was 76.0. Doing the math, it's pretty clear the car is using Nominal Remaining to calculate the displayed rated range. I'm thinking if you charge to higher SOCs frequently or recently, you'll probably get closer to a "full" charge. In my case, I don't know when the last time it was charged to 100% so not only did it take forever from 90 to 100%, it also only charged to 76.0. I suspect other variables are also a factor, such as temperature. Bottom line, I think the reason you might see some variability in the displayed rated range at 100% SOC is because the actual kWh, Nominal Energy Remaining, isn't always exactly the same value.
So, is using rated range an accurate way of measuring battery degradation? I think it is with a little bit of variation based on what was mentioned above. My example in the previous post I think was flawed because I didn't check the Nominal Energy Remaining at 100% SOC. Anyways, just wanted to correct myself incase anyone reads these posts in the future.
Tesomega
Member
2017 July 100D - 91.3 kwH Nominal Full Pack - This does not change at 100% SOC. So yes, there is some good level of degradation for 18 months/18k miles... will continue to watch this.
In the past 3 months i have been watching this very closely no further degradation..
In the past 3 months i have been watching this very closely no further degradation..
My May 2015 70D has 226 with 70k miles. 94%. I think I was 3% first year and about 1% annually since then. But hasn't it been recognized that the 75 got really hit the first year - like 5-8%? The big question is years 2-10. It certainly is possible that it will continue to be bad at 2-3% per year.
Oldschool496
Member
Tweaking is definitely part of the equation, as stated previously before update to Version 9 rated miles were floating between 244-247 full charge, now it floats between 236-238. It happened literally overnight with the addition of Version 9 added to my April 2016 build refresh 30K miles. I was at first not a happy camper. I have changed my perspective on charging, driving and the life of this car, 180 deg.
I view it as perhaps further protection of the battery against fully charging perhaps and since Model S has no degradation warranty this might help me the owner.
In all real world examples there is no need to ever charge all the way anyway. All your usage happens in the first 180 miles give or take. With the proliferation of Superchargers, Destination Charging, and Level 2 all around us.
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WdstockWizard
Member
Believe this!
I have a Sept. 2018 S75D which I charge at home with the Tesla wall charger, about once a week. Usually fill er up to 80% but occasionally to 100%, which indicates 259 miles or spot on according to Tesla specs. Two days ago charging to 80% gave me 275 miles. What!! I then charged to 100% ... 303 miles. I’m liking this trend. FWIW, no significant change in driving habits or weather. Lower level prior to charging is usually about 80 miles. We’ll see if this enhanced range feature continues.
I have a Sept. 2018 S75D which I charge at home with the Tesla wall charger, about once a week. Usually fill er up to 80% but occasionally to 100%, which indicates 259 miles or spot on according to Tesla specs. Two days ago charging to 80% gave me 275 miles. What!! I then charged to 100% ... 303 miles. I’m liking this trend. FWIW, no significant change in driving habits or weather. Lower level prior to charging is usually about 80 miles. We’ll see if this enhanced range feature continues.
Oldschool496
Member
It was changed, had to of been. Sometimes with updates also, you must check your settings. This got me at a Supercharger once looking inside a new 100D at the service center charging when I was green. It said some number of miles like 366 see below . I was stumped for awhile thinking this must be some test mule with a huge battery. Only one explanation for this "Ideal" set from factory.
Kinda interesting photo, after looking harder it has Tesla written all over it. Reflections of signs, Rims and Fencing.
WdstockWizard
Member
WdstockWizard
Member
All,
Could you kindly share your degradation metrics on your Tesla Model S. I too have had about 13% degradation, and Tesla is not willing to stand behind their product. As a proud owner and a shareholder, I am very disappointed by this. I have other Evs, and the degradation has been nothing close to this. I do feel the 90-pack has some issues that have not been present in the 85.
I have created a public Google sheet aimed at tracking Tesla Model S degradation vs Mileage. Can you share your numbers:
Tesla Model S Battery Degradation
(Please share and circulate this post)
Could you kindly share your degradation metrics on your Tesla Model S. I too have had about 13% degradation, and Tesla is not willing to stand behind their product. As a proud owner and a shareholder, I am very disappointed by this. I have other Evs, and the degradation has been nothing close to this. I do feel the 90-pack has some issues that have not been present in the 85.
I have created a public Google sheet aimed at tracking Tesla Model S degradation vs Mileage. Can you share your numbers:
Tesla Model S Battery Degradation
(Please share and circulate this post)
That isn't true. Tesla standards behind their products and upholds their warranty. I've asked you before and you changed the subject: what is the maximum level of degradation that is acceptable? 12%? 10%? 5%? 1%? Following the general rule of 5% the first year, and ~1-2% each additional year, the Model S packs would average around 16% at the end of their 8 year warranty. (Some will have much less others will have much more.)
Also, you haven't shared anything about your car... How old is it? How has the battery been treated? etc...
The industry is pretty much in the 30-40% category. (Model 3 warranty is 30%, Bolt warranty is 40%, Leaf is ~46% if I recall correctly, etc...)
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So using the standard formula your car should be at about 9%, and it is at ~13%. So a little worse than average. (Though it is probably average, or better, for a V1 90kWh pack.)
But it is nothing that should cause Tesla to replace the pack. I challenge you to find any EV manufacturer that would replace a pack with only 13% degradation... (I think there is one that has a 20% warranty, but most are 30%, or higher, before they will replace them.)
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