Thing is GM has a proper thermal management system installed in its EVs, so it can more or less fast charge all day long at advertised specs. The new Leaf starts neutering charging after only 1-2 DCFC sessions. Imagine when it is 100 degrees in the summer in say SoCal. The battery will be overheating before it even reaches the first DCFC location!
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2018 Nissan Leaf - $29,990. 40kWh battery
- Thread starter Nuclear Fusion
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Thing is GM has a proper thermal management system installed in its EVs, so it can more or less fast charge all day long at advertised specs. The new Leaf starts neutering charging after only 1-2 DCFC sessions. Imagine when it is 100 degrees in the summer in say SoCal. The battery will be overheating before it even reaches the first DCFC location!
SmartElectric
Active Member
Ambient temperature does not have an appreciable effect on the #rapidgate battery charge rate, as the battery is insulated, the problem is that charging raises the temperature of this insulated block of cells and throttling starts at 40C and beyond. Bjorn left the Leaf outside for an entire night and it only dropped 20C in very cold outside ambient temperatures.
DurandalAI
Member
Starts throttling at 20C, which is below the temperature that’s frequently encountered in southern states such as Arizona. Since the pack is insulated, and it is something that only produces heat, ambient temperature will most certainly have an impact. It means when it is 15C outside and your battery is already at 20C from driving and charging that it will stay at 20C for a lot longer. My Leaf’s battery pack hovers around 100F in the summer during the day, and 90F at night even when night temperatures drop to 75F. This will be a big thing for those who need to DCFC in southern/hot states.
SmartElectric
Active Member
You missed my point. I'm stating ambient is less important than the rapid charging itself. Bjorn's test was in zero (Celcius) temperature. A loss of from 40C down to 20C over 8 hours in freezing ambient temperature means the pack is highly insulated, and therefore the outside temperature has less of an effect than would otherwise be the case.
I think you two agree, but are focusing on different aspects.
Your point (I think): Outside temp has a minimal cooling (or heating) effect due to the insulation.
@DurandalAI 's point (I think): If the average ambient temp is above 20C (charge throttling threshold), the pack will never cool below that to allow the faster charging. If it is mildly below that, use of the pack will push it above 20C.
Insulation causes a cooling problem
20C limit causes a usability problem
Combined, they cause a commonly occuring usability problem.
FWIW, north European sites are starting to talk about a 64kWh Nissan LEAF, so it seems to be coming.
also a tweet of a photo showing 102kW charge rate...
anyway, Nissan Smyrna USA seems to be producing at `650,000 cars per year rate so the plant where USA makes it LEAF is maxed out, 3 shifts etc etc etc.
in summary, Nissan USA is going full speed, each LEAF made needs to compete with any other Smyma vehicle, so even though nissan leaf is a 80% conquest sale car (ie people who buy leafs are new to the brand) each LEAF sold takes the production slot of another nissan vehicle, so the vehicle with a higher profit margin wins.
In USA, don't expect big discounts to move nissan leafs like in the past, at least until new capacity comes online.
Overseas is a different story (this is really a factory by factory limitation), so do expect discount or promotion to move lots of LEAF vehicles overseas, just not in USA.
also a tweet of a photo showing 102kW charge rate...
anyway, Nissan Smyrna USA seems to be producing at `650,000 cars per year rate so the plant where USA makes it LEAF is maxed out, 3 shifts etc etc etc.
in summary, Nissan USA is going full speed, each LEAF made needs to compete with any other Smyma vehicle, so even though nissan leaf is a 80% conquest sale car (ie people who buy leafs are new to the brand) each LEAF sold takes the production slot of another nissan vehicle, so the vehicle with a higher profit margin wins.
In USA, don't expect big discounts to move nissan leafs like in the past, at least until new capacity comes online.
Overseas is a different story (this is really a factory by factory limitation), so do expect discount or promotion to move lots of LEAF vehicles overseas, just not in USA.
also the gossip is that the new leaf differs from its hyundai equivalent in that the leaf is the first of the new 811 chemistry and the hyundai is the last of the pre 811 chemistry. so while the new kona is a good proxy for the new leaf, there will be differences
also the china sentra ev is leaf like but with a local catl battery, so nissan will have 3 differing battery suppliers for leaf 2019 catl-china, lg-korea, AESC-Jap/USA
also the china sentra ev is leaf like but with a local catl battery, so nissan will have 3 differing battery suppliers for leaf 2019 catl-china, lg-korea, AESC-Jap/USA
NeverFollow
Active Member
About the Tax credit, I find this situation a little bit anachronistic.
So the companies who started pushing the EV industries will be now in unfavorable position against new comer into the game.
pretty sure nissan leaf and gm volt were the first to get the tax rebate, dunno if the tesla roadster was still being sold in usa while the 2010 leafs were being delivered, perhaps a small amount were. the lotus that the roadster shared parts with went out of production and tesla had the issue of plenty of demand for roadster but only RHD (LHS) vehicles available. (ie sold out of USA stock, still had excess UK stock)
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