2020 BMW M3 (G80) 510HP/AWD : How Will it Compare to Model 3 Performance?

[Lanzer]

But I get your point. The i3 has so much potential, its been available for 5-6 years and they still have yet to really use some of that design to push more BEVs forward. Sad really.

There's definite potential in the i3. Though at the same time, I think that if BMW makes a gas version of the i3, it would sell equally bad. BMW owners just aren't thrilled about owning a mini car, and those who want a mini car probably go for a economy version such as the Bolt or Leaf and not start with a luxury brand.

If BMW want to sell and incrementally develop an EV, it better be a car that excite people. But the conundrum is that a "great EV" would cannibalize their existing line-up and spell the end of service center revenues for all BMW dealerships. That's just me guessing of course, there might be other reasons why they decided to make a small electric car to start. Anyways the poor reception just end up being a self fulfilling prophecy in telling themselves to not place big bets on EV and stating in public that the demand for EV isn't there...

On one hand I'm a fan of my M3 and it's fun to poo poo on any competition, but on the other hand I want all car manufactures to make cool cars that don't pollute the air. Overall it'd be much more fun to talk about cool advances form all different manufactures, much like the days when we get excited over fuel injection and TCS being standard on most cars. Hope we can get there sooner.

 

[Msjulie]

On one hand I'm a fan of my M3 and it's fun to poo poo on any competition, but on the other hand I want all car manufactures to make cool cars that don't pollute the air. Overall it'd be much more fun to talk about cool advances form all different manufactures, much like the days when we get excited over fuel injection and TCS being standard on most cars. Hope we can get there sooner.

+100

 

[SDRick]

Always loved BMW but they lost me when they put in the fake exhaust noise through the stereo speakers that required after market programming to disable.

To add insult to injury the wife’s M500i had a crack in the headlight and while the light modules were functional the replacement one piece lense was $3800 installed.

 

[SageBrush]

To add insult to injury the wife’s M500i had a crack in the headlight and while the light modules were functional the replacement one piece lense was $3800 installed.

This part ?

$65 at rockauto

 

[SDRick]

Good try, that part is not anywhere close to the 2019 headlight with adaptive. Let me know if you find one for under $2500 but it’s already water under the bridge.

 

[Octo]

So, what’s the HP at <10rpm?

 

[SageBrush]

2019 headlight with adaptive

Then ... only $1300 for installation ?

I'm relieved. For a moment there I though the BMW dealership was gouging.

 

[spacemnspiff]

Putting a bigger engine in any car is the lazy way of making the car fast. If they want to make it advancement, improve by a factor of 2 or more the 18% thermal efficiency of ICE, but they won't. BMW and all the so called luxury carmakers rely on the emotionally perceived luxury of top 1/8" of the car, the insides are what matter, which they make little improvements on. Suspension geometry and damping is well understood, so making a car handle well, is not advancement.

The i3 and i8 were feeble attempts of BMW to get into EV market, which only shows how complacent they are with their stodgy ICE mindset. If they don't retool their factories for EVs, they are going to left behind, which I contend they already are.

 

[ecarfan]

Moderator note: thread title edited for clarity.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So, what’s the HP at <10rpm?

I think you mean torque. The power is low for Model 3 and the M3 at low RPM. The torque at that low speed is probably higher for the Mode 3 though.

10rpm is really slow though (1.3 wheel revolutions per minute - about 0.1mph), so even the Model 3 also produces very little torque at that speed, presumably due to torque ripple (reasons are unclear). But anyway, if you were to extrapolate (incorrectly) peak torque all the way to 10rpm, the Model 3 would make about 1HP at 10rpm. Which is probably more than the M3 makes.

However, due to gearing and clutch slip, the M3 likely will accelerate much faster than the Model 3 off the line (just like the prior version) - it can probably break traction - but that does not mean 0-60 will necessarily be better. We will see.

 

[Joey_82]

The i3 looks are polarizing though. I never test drove one because I couldnt get past the looks... same reason I never tried a leaf, or volt, or bolt, or prius, or some of these other hybrids. I had a BMW Active hybrid 5 on a 3 year lease, and that car got a whopping 3-4 MPG more than the gas version, had a smaller trunk without passthrough, and felt super heavy to drive. It was my wifes though, and she loved the luxury cruiser feel of it, but I hated it.

Back then, I wondered why electric cars had to look like econoboxes, or silly kiddy spaceships (which is what the i3 looked like to me), or cost over 100k (tesla). When they released the Model 3 Performance, My lease was ending on my 435 and I was choosing between the model 3 P and a M3.

I agree with @ucmndd that the cross shopping pool is small, but I know it DOES exist. The price I paid for my model 3P was right around what I would have paid for the M3 I was eyeing, which was one with a free individual grey color. Had a list price of 82 something but I was going to be able to get it in the 73-74 ish range. My Model 3 P was 71.5 before rebates (I got 11k in rebates and incentives for it though when you add them all up).

Anyway, this was for a daily driver, and I took a leap and got the model 3P and am thrilled I did, for the use of daily driving. I would love to see what a performance EV from BMW would do, if it was designed from the ground up to be an EV. A BMW iM3 or something. Not holding my breath for it though.

The i3 is definitely polarizing, I could absolutely see why some may dislike the looks, though myself I love the look, size and how spacious the cabin feels. For me, being a BMW fan since I was a kid (but never owning one) it was a perfect stop gap to get a nice driving / accelerating BEV (30kWh pack) to hold me over until I could get a Model 3 in Canada. I guess the good side about the polarizing look of the i3 is that it caused a lot of people to stop and ask me about the car, in which I essentially used to educate people on EVs in general.

I've always loved the 3 series so did spend a few minutes looking at the G80 in person, more out of curiosity. Also had a chance to take the M340i for along test drive. One thing that stuck out to me, was how often the sales rep told me that they had "self driving" (really just fancy ACC) without needing your hands on the wheel. He repeated that many times about the no hands on the wheel without directly referring to Tesla, though I knew that's what he intended. There's a small camera in the instrument cluster that watches you to see if you're looking forward at the road, and if not it will alert you. Awesome car overall, and seems like it competes with the LR AWD in terms of power and acceleration while I guess the G80 M3 will get closer to the M3P?

EDIT: also, im not sure where on TMC this thread should go, but im not convinced it should be in the Model 3 section. its a general discussion of a competing brands car. Mods should consider moving it to an appropriate place.. as much as I still enjoy discussing things BMW lol.

Lol agreed.

 

[TJ73]

I am parting ways with my BMW (M235) this week and I've zero emotional attachment to it, unlike the E36 I've owned many years ago. BMW has definitely lost its way over the last couple of decades. ​

 

[JulienW]

While too late now for me I still wish Tesla would make a M4/Mustang/Camaro coupe killer. While coupes are super niche and all but dead plus even sedans are struggling I would LOVE to see a Model 4 coupe.

Of course with the LIST:

1. Model Y
2. Pickup
3. Semi
4. S/X skateboard/refresh
5. Roadster
6. xxxxxx
7. Model 4 Coupe

A coupe would be FAR down the priorities list.

 

[SwedishSTIle]

The current version M5 does 0-60 in 3.2s with the competition package, launch control, slick tires, and warm weather — maybe.

Source: spending a day at the BMW M Performance school in Thermal, CA.

THAT sealed the deal on the Model 3 Performance for me. Spending the day driving the top end M2, M3, and M5 I found them boring, slow, and loud. The ceramic brakes though I still long for, but otherwise they weren’t even close.

Ive only lost to two cars playing stoplight hero in my P3D. One was a new M5, the other a bonkers RS7.

The M5 is CONSIDERABLY faster than the P3D.

A car rated by BMW at 500hp with AWD will easily keep pace with the P3D. Mostly because it will be making a LOT more than its rated 500hp. I think the new M3 will easily be as fast as the P3D. The M5 comp makes somewhere around 700 hp at the crank and dyno's as much as the wheels as BMW rates it for. Not to mention making more torque at the WHEELS than it is rated for.

2019 BMW M5 Competition — More Power Than Advertised

Not that I would buy a BMW in this day and age of sterile numb bimmers.

 

[Lhshockey24]

Ive only lost to two cars playing stoplight hero in my P3D. One was a new M5, the other a bonkers RS7.

The M5 is CONSIDERABLY faster than the P3D.

A car rated by BMW at 500hp with AWD will easily keep pace with the P3D. Mostly because it will be making a LOT more than its rated 500hp. I think the new M3 will easily be as fast as the P3D. The M5 comp makes somewhere around 700 hp at the crank and dyno's as much as the wheels as BMW rates it for. Not to mention making more torque at the WHEELS than it is rated for.

2019 BMW M5 Competition — More Power Than Advertised

Not that I would buy a BMW in this day and age of sterile numb bimmers.

Very true on considerably faster, 0-60 times though are about dead even if you have a full charge on the P3D. I could have been more specific that those cars still "felt" slower because of the lack of electric instant torque. BMW has always under-rated their HP/torque numbers.

 

[MTSN]

The current version M5 does 0-60 in 3.2s with the competition package, launch control, slick tires, and warm weather — maybe.

Source: spending a day at the BMW M Performance school in Thermal, CA.

THAT sealed the deal on the Model 3 Performance for me. Spending the day driving the top end M2, M3, and M5 I found them boring, slow, and loud. The ceramic brakes though I still long for, but otherwise they weren’t even close.

Totally agree with you. Every ICE car I've been in since taking delivery of our Model 3 feels incredibly dated and boring. I will be doing a Porsche track day experience in a couple weeks in a GT3, so I'm curious how a car like that will feel after ~5k miles in a Tesla.

 

[Lhshockey24]

Totally agree with you. Every ICE car I've been in since taking delivery of our Model 3 feels incredibly dated and boring. I will be doing a Porsche track day experience in a couple weeks in a GT3, so I'm curious how a car like that will feel after ~5k miles in a Tesla.

PLEASE report back on that! I read everywhere that you can beat Porsche “handling and feel”. Would really like to know someday what that means. It would make the Taycan that much more interesting.

 

[VQTRVA]

Really????
View attachment 437765

I think Tesla cares precious little about the M3 and the amount of cross-shopping between M3 and P3 is vastly overstated.

Exactly.
It used to care. Beat it.
Now, moving on to bigger fishes to fry.

 

[jjrandorin]

Totally agree with you. Every ICE car I've been in since taking delivery of our Model 3 feels incredibly dated and boring. I will be doing a Porsche track day experience in a couple weeks in a GT3, so I'm curious how a car like that will feel after ~5k miles in a Tesla.

+1 on the report back.. will be interesting to hear what your impressions are. I have never done a porsche track day event (never owned one). Have done a couple of BMW ones at the Thermal track, and they were a blast.

 

[SwedishSTIle]

Its funny, around town the P3 is comical in how fast it is. I mean, how do you not laugh when you are rolling to a light and it turns green before you stop and you nail it and your guts try to invert on you?

However it still doesnt feel very fast at speed to me. My old STi had a lot more pull up top and it was nowhere near the highway monster that many cars are.

Speed is a bit relative. I had a 2.9L cayman that felt asleep compared to the Subaru, but at speed there is no way in hell the Suby was keeping up if the road was anything but straight. The Suby felt faster at speed, however, and was more exciting, though ultimately less capable. The P3 makes people physically sick and angry when you nail it without warning, but is still slower than super sedans in both 0-60 and high speed acceleration. Ive had C63's, RS7's, Corvettes and a couple of mustangs walk off on the highway even at high SOC.

I think what makes the P3 feel so stupid fast is not just the acceleration, but the brutal instantaneousness of it. 30-50? Blink. 50-75? Blink. 10-60? Blink. No one can stop you from merging in traffic.