300-plus kW inverter for M3 -- implies MS equivalent performance

[ModelNforNerd]

They've found a balance between power/capacity in the cell, so for now this is a constant.
The efficency of the inverter is also a constants, if they build a better inverter ( wich it seems they have done ) they will simply put the news inverter in the new model S, so this is again a constant.

Yes, of course they can make a battery with a different power/capacity constants for the model 3, but it's unlikely since it probably would probably destroy the battery faster. for what?

So, again, more space -> more capacity -> more power -> more performance.

But until we know more about the battery for the Model 3, you're just making assumptions.

Remember, new cells compared to the S/X battery, and it will be made at the Gigafactory.

Maybe we'll learn more at the GF Grand Opening event July 29th.

 

[JeffK]

They've found a balance between power/capacity in the cell, so for now this is a constant.
The efficency of the inverter is also a constants, if they build a better inverter ( wich it seems they have done ) they will simply put the news inverter in the new model S, so this is again a constant.

Yes, of course they can make a battery with a different power/capacity constants for the model 3, but it's unlikely since it probably would probably destroy the battery faster. for what?

So, again, more space -> more capacity -> more power -> more performance.

You're forgetting the constant in question is 1500 amps the smart fuse can deliver.... unless you up the voltage and reduce capacity you aren't going to push more power through there unless I'm mistaken.

Same voltage and current on the Model 3 equals same power in a smaller package and therefore faster even if there's reduced capacity.

 

[cronosx]

But until we know more about the battery for the Model 3, you're just making assumptions.

Remember, new cells compared to the S/X battery, and it will be made at the Gigafactory.

Maybe we'll learn more at the GF Grand Opening event July 29th.

Yes.. but it's a good assumptions.
If the battery is a so-good upgrade they would port it to the model S, why not?
The model S is not the roadster, it's here to remain, has a production line of her own etc..

You're forgetting the constant in question is 1500 amps the smart fuse can deliver.... unless you up the voltage and reduce capacity you aren't going to push more power through there unless I'm mistaken.

Same voltage and current on the Model 3 equals same power in a smaller package and therefore faster even if there's reduced capacity.

You can without problem use more fuse, this is not the real problem, the real problem is how much you can squeeze from a single cell. More cell -> less amps on every cell, it's simple as that.

I'm not telling you that the model 3 can't get more power than what is capable the actual model S, i'm just stating that every upgrade you can make on the model 3, can be made on the S, since the S can support a bigger battery, the S will get more power.

The point when this is not valid is when the capability of the battery is so good that the problem start to be the weight of the car itself. then.. and only then.. the model 3 can be faster than the model S.

Just a late point.. the model 3 should have a better cd than the model S, but it's a factor like the weight.. i think there is a need of almost 5 years before the cd/weight could be a winning point for the model 3 against the model S

 

[sandpiper]

This is a mass produced lower cost vehicle the deltas should be smaller.

The deltas are smaller in absolute terms, but they're possibly not smaller by proportion. It's all speculation of course, but take a look at any entry level luxury car. There is a huge difference between the entry level and fully loaded. I'd be very surprised if Tesla was different.

At the top end they'll be competing with fully loaded 3-series. If Tesla is production constrained, as they most assuredly will be for the first while, then they would be nuts to charge less than what the competition gets for a competing vehicle. When it gets down to brass tacks Tesla has to become profitable. I suspect you will see VERY few $35,000 cars rolling off of the lot. And I expect that you will need to spend 60-70 for well equipped one. And I suspect that they will still sell like mad at that price.

 

[Alketi]

You guys are awfully optimistic about sub-3 second 0-60 times.

One of the engineers in the test drives was asked how fast the 3 was and said they're not releasing that just yet, but also hinted that the Model S will still be faster. [I can't remember the exact quote]

I think it's very possible that they use a smaller motor for the 3, to save on cost, among other things. And, we know the top-end battery almost certainly won't be 90kWh.

Let's say the top battery is 75kWh. I'm expecting a P75DL to clock in the 3.5-3.9 second range. If it's faster, I'll be ecstatic, but I'm tempering my expectations.

 

[Adrien]

You can without problem use more fuse, this is not the real problem, the real problem is how much you can squeeze from a single cell. More cell -> less amps on every cell, it's simple as that.

Yep, bigger cells won't provide higher voltage nor greater amp draw. Just like a D cell isn't going to perform better than a AAA cell, besides energy density. It's what worries me about using this new cell sizing

 

[Swampgator]

I believe there are lots of factors that go into the maximum power that can be sent to the motors.
The internal resistance of the batteries and max voltage are 2 that have not been mentioned in this thread.
Both of those will be improved for M3 no doubt.
That said, those improvements could be translated into MS cell/pack production sometime in the next year. You may not be able to get much better 0-60 times as that is traction limited to some extent, but the Ms will be able to achieve better quarter mile times with better cell tech. This may be what we are seeing now with the increased output of the newest M S P90DL

 

[JeffK]

You can without problem use more fuse, this is not the real problem, the real problem is how much you can squeeze from a single cell. More cell -> less amps on every cell, it's simple as that.

If cooling is adequate then this point isn't as important as you'd imagine. The cells in the Model S 90DL discharge at under 6C whereas they are capable of at least 10C.

I know what you want to be true, but if they don't limit the motor or battery in the model 3 they can always use a higher drain and get more performance out of the Model 3 every time. It's a matter of physics.

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

You guys are awfully optimistic about sub-3 second 0-60 times.

One of the engineers in the test drives was asked how fast the 3 was and said they're not releasing that just yet, but also hinted that the Model S will still be faster. [I can't remember the exact quote]

I think it's very possible that they use a smaller motor for the 3, to save on cost, among other things. And, we know the top-end battery almost certainly won't be 90kWh.

Let's say the top battery is 75kWh. I'm expecting a P75DL to clock in the 3.5-3.9 second range. If it's faster, I'll be ecstatic, but I'm tempering my expectations.

McHoffa and I were discussing "close to 3" second times, not sub...

 

[McHoffa]

McHoffa and I were discussing "close to 3" second times, not sub...

Yeah, I'm definitely not expecting sub 3, but 3.4 on a $65k ludicrous Model 3 would be awesome.

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

Yeah, I'm definitely not expecting sub 3, but 3.4 on a $65k ludicrous Model 3 would be awesome.

Now on the Ludicrous model I AM expecting a sub 3 second 0-60 time... you heard it here first folks

 

[McHoffa]

Now on the Ludicrous model I AM expecting a sub 3 second 0-60 time... you heard it here first folks

Well if you're right, and it's under $70k, I'm going to be extremely happy for my 40th birthday.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yes that will be true if it is indeed a 300kW inverter. But Tesla is optimizing the Model 3 for manufacturablity and cost. Putting an overly large inverter in the vehicle if (any of its trim levels') battery cannot support it, or it's motor cannot accept that level of power seems wasteful.

Plus it is basically the only clue we have (besides 0-60 target in base version), so wild speculation must occur.

I wouldn't suspect that the 300KW inverter would be in the base model. With that in mind neither Tesla nor the buyer wanting the 300KW inverter would be thinking about trying to keep the car at $35K.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Now on the Ludicrous model I AM expecting a sub 3 second 0-60 time... you heard it here first folks

Absolutely. You are my hero. Sub 3's? Phenomenal.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Well if you're right, and it's under $70k, I'm going to be extremely happy for my 40th birthday.

about $60K is what I'm hoping for.

 

[JeffK]

I wouldn't suspect that the 300KW inverter would be in the base model.

This probably depends how inexpensive they are to produce. Why design and build multiple when one size can fit all at lower cost than invertors for the Model S?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Well if you're right, and it's under $70k, I'm going to be extremely happy for my 40th birthday.

My 40th is March coming up. So I likely won't have the car until my 41st.

My wife calls this my mid-life crisis-mobile.

I told her it's my Halftime Celebration.

 

[McHoffa]

My 40th is March coming up. So I likely won't have the car until my 41st.

My wife calls this my mid-life crisis-mobile.

I told her it's my Halftime Celebration.

It's my 40th birthday (also Christmas), 10th anniversary, mid life crisis, and first "fun" car, and probably my last "me driving" car. After that, 100% full autonomy will probably be normal. Since I was early in line and want lots of options, I am hoping I have it next fall.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

It's my 40th birthday (also Christmas), 10th anniversary, mid life crisis, and first "fun" car, and probably my last "me driving" car. After that, 100% full autonomy will probably be normal. Since I was early in line and want lots of options, I am hoping I have it next fall.

I'm checking off as many options as I can afford, which will HOPEFULLY be all of them....

but yea, this car gets to "wear many hats".

It's the fun car. It's the road trip car. It will be bigger than the Impreza, so it will be the taking friends out car.

It will be my daily commuter. And it will probably be the car that demon spawn spends the most time in, should that come to pass....


But, first and foremost, it will be mine, and she'll have to drive her Impreza and stare longingly at the M3.

 

[Garlan Garner]

This probably depends how inexpensive they are to produce. Why design and build multiple when one size can fit all at lower cost than invertors for the Model S?

I agree.