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4 Loaners, 0 Working Pano Roofs

Discussion in 'Model S: Interior & Exterior' started by rpo, Jan 22, 2016.

  1. rpo

    rpo Member

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    I think the subject says it all. I have had four different loaners with pano roofs so far. And none have worked. One would open to vent, but nothing happened when I tried opening further. One would open to about 50% and then stop. The 3rd would open and close successfully to all positions...while dumping water all over you. The latest one, which I picked up today, does absolutely nothing when the controls are put in any position.

    I am glad I ordered mine without the roof. I can't imagine this is the norm, but are the loaner cars where cars with broken pano roofs end up? Today's car has a really low VIN, and one rear door handle does not retract (or the ability to open the door) as well. I am having terrible luck with loaners so far!
     
  2. patrick40363

    patrick40363 Member

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    Mine works just fine.

     
  3. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    I've had mine since 2013 and I haven't missed the pano roof. It is unfortunate, however, that if you want a roof rack of any kind that you need the panoramic roof.
     
  4. rpo

    rpo Member

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    This...I could not agree with more.
     
  5. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    As these cars age, the pano roof, and air suspension are going to be constant problems. It's too bad that Tesla made them seem like a "must" on the early cars. It was easy to predict, as other manufacturers have had the same problems.
     
  6. omarsultan

    omarsultan Active Member

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    #shrugs

    Have a 2013 build, open the car up whenever the weather is warm enough and no problems so far. If I were to get another MS, I would buy it again.
     
  7. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    What do you base this on? Air Suspension is robust technology at this point. We've had Mercedes Airmatic in cars for 5+ years of ownership with no issues.

    Same for the pano roofs. Zero issues other that some rattling/squeaks that got resolved completely

    The point being the bottom line is that both the Pano Roof and Airmatic are mature technologies in use for over a decade and at least for us, we consider them essential for any car we buy and we will not buy a car without either of these two features. Having said that yes the Air suspension can fail just as likely as a tire may fail.
     
  8. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Air suspension has been around much longer than 10 years. I don't consider 5 years to be a long ownership period. Once you get a price quote to fix air suspension out of warranty on a Model S, you may rethink(if you keep cars longer than 5 years of course).
     
  9. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    Oh, come on now. I agree that 5y of ownership isn't long, but...

    Just about any major component that needs to be fixed out of warranty is going to be a big ticket item.
     
  10. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Very true, but air suspension is an option. All I was saying, is that coil cars are not going to have this problem.
     
  11. Zextraterrestrial

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    #11 Zextraterrestrial, Jan 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
    I have had mine since 2012 and have looooved the pano roof.
    strange, I have never seen any issue that is mentioned above.

    you could get a much better coil set up to replace the air with if it does fail.
    the stock coils were quite a bit bouncy on the loaner I had
     
  12. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    #12 calisnow, Jan 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
    Well I can base my experience with air suspension on my E55 AMG and my Bentley Continental GT - both with air suspension - both failed eventually between5 and 8 years old. This has nothing to do with air suspension being a new or "mature" technology - it's simply the fact that as rubber ages it will spring leaks. 5 years is not very long for an air suspension - if you keep it long enough eventually the rubber bellows will spring leaks and you'll need new ones. This is a well known fact about air suspensions. They are very expensive to replace - my Benz was almost $6,000 to do all four if I recall, and my Bentley was $2,000 to do the right front which failed.

    At first the leak may be small and the car's pump will keep it pressurized - eventually it will leak more and the pump will not be enough, and you'll wake up to a car sitting low on its haunches in the garage in the morning.

    The Teslas are so new that the air suspensions haven't aged to the point where this problem has shown itself en masse - but it will.

    If you're getting rid of your car in the next couple years you're probably fine - but if you intend to drive it 100K, 200K + miles and a decade or more you are in for problems eventually. Traditional coilover suspensions are always cheaper in the long run by a significant margin - both to maintain and to replace as they wear. Springs last almost forever - you can simply change out the gas shocks every 50K miles if you want that new car handling to stay new - and it's really cheap - a few hours of labor at your local mechanic and maybe $100-$300 per shock.

    Nothing wrong with air suspensions though - they're a luxury good and you pay to play.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Then you have been lucky so far - the Mercedes forums are littered with people discussing failing airmatics. Air suspensions are so problematic that a third party company has found a market niche selling cheaper engineered replacements for when the OEM's eventually bite the dust - look up Arnott.

    - - - Updated - - -

    THIS - he's completely right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Do you have much experience with tuning cars / tracking / upgrading? If you are familiar with suspensions you'll know that coil/shock traditional suspensions are: 1 - Much cheaper to replace than air suspensions - they're not even close to being comparable items in terms of cost to fix. 2 - Last longer without failing (though shocks do degrade over time - some more than others - and it's always good to replace them also - I've done the shocks on my QX56 twice now as it's at 230K miles since I bought it new).

    Air suspension is a luxury good, nice to have - I'm getting it on my Tesla - but just be aware that it significantly raises the cost of ownership if you intend to keep the car a very long time and put a ton of miles on it.

    This claim that EV's will be super cheap to own and last 20 years only applies to simple EV's like the Nissan Leaf. Cars like the Tesla will eat us alive with repair costs at the 10+ year mark because of the expensive electronics. Eventually those displays, computer chips, wiring, air pumps etc are going to start failing with age.
     
  13. MassModel3

    MassModel3 Member

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    So are you saying that on a Tesla, if the SAS fails it can be removed and replaced with coil suspension?

    I don't know if it's typical of other Model S's, but mine depressurizes when the car is parked for a few minutes. Today, for example, I parked in my garage and was unloading from the trunk and I had my legs up against the bumper and felt the car lower itself. It's done this since I've owned it, in fact. I assume it's just how the SAS takes a break when it's not needed. Is this an incorrect assumption? I can't imaging constant pressurization would be a best practice.
     
  14. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    I dunno - I'm not an expert on it. I'd recommend you measure the height of some fixed point on the car to the ground when you first get out, and then again after it's lowered. Check the difference and call up Tesla service to see what they say.
     
  15. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    I generally keep cars only while under warranty but one of our Mercedes car is not under warranty but I am totally okay with having to replace an air suspension strut if it becomes necessary. Arnott makes air suspension components for Mercedes, Audi and several other manufacturers. I'm sure they will have a solution for Tesla soon as well.

    https://www.arnottindustries.com/

    An air suspension strut is a few hundred to several hundreds dollars generally. I like the dynamic nature of an Air Suspension and I will never buy a car without it or a similar dynamic suspension system.
     
  16. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    Props, man. Thanks for educating me.
     
  17. tezzla

    tezzla Member

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    I've owned 3 different model Ses over the last 2 1/2 years, never had a problem and/or a leak in any of them?
     
  18. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

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    We have to pano mostly for the headroom, which made me wish there was an option for the glass roof that did not open. Headroom plus the open cockpit feeling without the potential issues with the current pano roof.
     
  19. jcaspar

    jcaspar Member

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    Love mine and use it daily in all but winter. No issues other than a slight rattle 1.5 years ago that was solved with a small trip of felt from the service center.
     
  20. freeewilly

    freeewilly Member

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    Lol, if I can change Model S like you, I don't need to worry about air suspension or anything else on the Model S. :smile:
     

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