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400 kW Tesla Charging via Chargepoint

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by MorrisonHiker, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.42

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  2. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Or it could just be the capitulation from Chargepoint that even though the CHAdeMO and CCS standards exist, there are a lot of Tesla cars that are capable of taking a DCFC and may not want to spend the money on an adapter for either of these standards...

    Tesla did release their patents, so I would presume that the charging interface for a Model S and Model X is part of those spec...
     
  3. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    So are we gonna see 3 connector DC Fast Chargers? (CCS, CHAdeMO and Tesla)
     
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  4. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Here's a good article by @tommolog on the announced 400kw Chargepoint chargers. He specifically mentions "ChargePoint Express Plus stations will offer CCS and CHAdeMO charging, but can support up to three connectors, leaving the possibility open for a third “standard” to be added. I doubt ChargePoint would have designed the stations with the option to add a third connector unless they believed there was a good possibility that it would be utilized." in the article... So, a Tesla one could be installed.
     
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  5. Ambidexter

    Ambidexter Member

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    While I'm excited about not having to buy a CHAdeMO adapter, I've been wondering as well about that 400kW number. Will it be feasible to retrofit existing cars to support more than 120kW input (with a reasonable retrofit like the 75A upgrade), or is that tied into the battery pack construction such that only new cars could support it?

    Obviously 400kW would still be great for shared stations, and a Tesla connector would be wonderful.
     
  6. Ambidexter

    Ambidexter Member

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    I couldn't find another thread on my question before but now I did. It looks like the speculation is that it's battery pack limited (by the charging speed limits of the cells).

    Supercharger V3 over 350kW
     
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  7. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    Has anyone used the chademo adapter on one of the 100KW level 3 chargers? I wonder if they can put electrons into a Tesla at the maximum rate with the adapter.
     
  8. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    i thought the Tesla Chademo adapter has a limit on current that basically prevent people from using it for DC charger with more than 50 kw output. Pretty sure version 2 of the adapter will be out in the future.
     
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  9. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    The Chademo spec imaxes at 62.5KW. Is there a new spec?

    Also, the video has been removed so perhaps Chargepoint jumped the gun and showed something they're not supposed to yet.
     
  10. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.42

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    I'm wondering if that's what the announcement will be the week of the 15th.
     
  11. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    CHAdeMO specification is:

    50kW = 500 volts max * 125 amps max (really 62.5kW capable), about 2007-2008 time frame?

    100kW = 500 volts max * 200 amps (max initial design)

    150kW = 500 volts max * 350 amps (2017 launch, really 175kW capable)

    350kW = 1000 volts max *350 amps = (proposed summer 2016)
     
  12. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    I was talking about Chademo adapter made by Tesla. Not the Chademo station specs.
     
  13. rw86347

    rw86347 Member

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    Chargepoint was showing off their new level 3 charger. Their new charger can charge at 1000 miles per hour.
     
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  14. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

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    Assuming your batteries can handle it. On a 90KWh pack, this is a 4.5C charge rate, which no Tesla pack can handle. The reason superchargers are 120-135KW is that for current packs, that's actually faster than the batteries can handle. It's never been about the chargers.
     
  15. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

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    If I go to a 100KW Chademo station, will the adapter down cycle to 50KW to not overload the adapter?
     
  16. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    #17 TonyWilliams, Jan 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
    The actual Tesla / CHAdeMO adaptor limit is printed right on the adaptor... 125 amps.

    Yes, that is technically 125a * 500v = 62.5kW (500v or 1000v is the published maximum CHAdeMO voltage)

    No Tesla car has a battery over 400 volts (except the Roadster at 416v).

    So, the actual maximum power is around 48kW in the "big battery" car (85-90-100kWh - 403v max) and about 42.5kW in the small battery car (60-70-75 - 354v max).

    125a * 385v = 48kW max
    125a * 340v = 42.5kW max

    If you plug any Tesla ever produced since 2012 into ANY CHAdeMO station that is capable of 125a or more, or whether it is 500v or 1000v capable, it will charge at a maximum of 42.5kW or 48kW (plus or minus a kW or two).

    The charge rate is slightly faster in the Tesla Roadster with JdeMO, because the battery voltage is slightly higher at a maximum of 416v. In addition, it may be possible to handle up to 200 amps:

    125a * 400v = 50kW max
    200a * 370v = 74kW max

    Even if you plug your Tesla into this ChargePoint 400kW / 400a / 1000v capable beast, it will charge at the maximums as stated above.

    If ChargePoint were able to get a license to offer "native" Supercharger plugs on these chargers, every non-Roadster Tesla that has ever been produced will be able to charge at the car's maximum rate, whether that is 90kW (A battery early cars), or 100kW (early 60 cars), or 120kW (most other cars)
     
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  17. Patrick W

    Patrick W Active Member

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    But still nice to know what's already out there for once battery packs are available that can handle it.

    Just imagine being able to fill your "tank" faster than an ICE vehicle. :)
     
  18. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    I disagree, charging infrastructure needs to come first. Both my Tesla's can charge at 120KW+, but no charger except Tesla SC can provide that - most crawl at 6KW. Having a network build up that can charge faster is great, plus will encourage manufacturers to make EV's that can charge that fast. Who would want to travel in a Tesla if they were limited to L2 public chargers? Or, how many people who buy a Bolt would pay an extra $10K to charge fast if no chargers were out there. I bet a lot more people would she'll out an extra 30% for a Bolt if it charged at 1000mph AND there were plenty of chargers along major routes.
     
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  19. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    Remember that Chargepoint is now beginning to set up infrastructure to support the Germans arriving during the next two years and after. In addition tesla will be working to make higher charge rates acceptable to the battery packs.

    No matter how many graphs of C etc people make here we still need to be acutely aware of the pace of technological advance. JB said in 2013:
    “It’s not going to happen in a year from now. It’s going to be hard. But I think we can get down to five to 10 minutes,”

    Tesla Aims to Charge Electric Vehicles in Just Five Minutes, as Fast as a Fill-Up

    We will see the ultra-fast charging in common use by 2020 and some before that. The Chargepoint announcement is all about chargers. Respectfully, it IS about the chargers and about the vehicles themselves and about the batteries. There are a number of crucial variables which all require advances to make these 5-10 minute charging sessions real.
     
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  20. rw86347

    rw86347 Member

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    They said they have a place for a third wire.
     

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