6-20 to 14-30 worth it?

[LoudMusic]

That might work in warmer climates (and 120 V charging is also wasting quite some energy), but not if it gets really cold. With little over 1 kW available to warm the battery it would probably take all day long just to be able to actually charge.
Right now it's -23°C (-9 F) where I live and I wouldn't want anything less than a 240 V / 48 Amp setup. At least I'm not draining my battery while the motors draw some 7 kW to precondition the battery.

It takes nearly three days to do a full charge on a long range Model 3 or Model Y. The remaining time in the day (which is several hours) you could drive about 250 miles on what you've charged. 365 days in a year means 121 full charges. 121 full charges means 30,250 miles.

And that's with loads of buffer time both for required charge time and available drive time.

Of course you could also just charge and drive as much as possible on a daily basis, or however much you need. But the trick is to "ABC", Always Be Charging. If the battery is full it's time to drive. If you're not driving, plug it in.

 

[Rocky_H]

The biggest reason I’m thinking about it is during cold months. Preconditioning takes some % away

Then don't. The car doesn't need that. Cabin heating gets going really fast in an electric car, so you can just start driving, and it will have hot air blowing in the first couple of minutes. Or you could start the cabin heating from your phone a few minutes before if you want, which wouldn't use up all that much energy. But I'll bet you're doing this thing I see a lot of new owners do, where they think they need to preheat the car for a half hour to an hour beforehand, and then complain about how much energy it uses. That's not necessary.

The 6-20 should be good. I would maybe consider an upgrade if you could actually get to a 50 or 60A circuit, but just to go from 20 to 30, I wouldn't think that's worth it.

 

[LoudMusic]

Then don't. The car doesn't need that. Cabin heating gets going really fast in an electric car, so you can just start driving, and it will have hot air blowing in the first couple of minutes. Or you could start the cabin heating from your phone a few minutes before if you want, which wouldn't use up all that much energy. But I'll bet you're doing this thing I see a lot of new owners do, where they think they need to preheat the car for a half hour to an hour beforehand, and then complain about how much energy it uses. That's not necessary.

The 6-20 should be good. I would maybe consider an upgrade if you could actually get to a 50 or 60A circuit, but just to go from 20 to 30, I wouldn't think that's worth it.

I'm definitely pro-preheat, especially if the car is plugged in. Even plugged into a 15A outlet, preheating while plugged in is negligible power usage for the car.

This is assuming it's already reached the set charge limit. If it's still actively charging the battery and hasn't gotten to a SoC that allows the driver to be comfortable with range for their upcoming journey, kicking in climate control will prolong that charge cycle which may be unwanted.

But when I was charging from 15A in well below freezing temperatures I attempted to preheat before every departure. 'Cause &#$^ freezing my butt on cold seats.

Now back home our winter electricity rates are $0.055/kwh. I would like for the car to just always be ready to go. But that's not an option.

 

[brkaus]

I’m a 5 min pre-heat person unless I’m headed in a long trip and need every bit of range possible. A long pre-heat for a 12 mile drive to work is a waste to me.

 

[sparty96]

The biggest reason I’m thinking about it is during cold months. Preconditioning takes some % away and with 30% range loss or more driving In sub zero temps gaining 7 charging miles an hour or 56 miles equals about 18% more range. I just figure rhat 18% is what I lose preconditioning and what I lose with range loss.

I would give the 6-20 a try before paying for larger circuit install. I live in MN and I'm having no problems getting along with 6-20. My normal daily commute/driving is around 30-40 miles including short trips for gym and lunch. The other morning it was -17 in the morning with high of 1 deg. I started at 62% SOC and finished the day at 38% drove 34 total miles. Charged overnight for 9 hours to reach 78% SOC. I do normally use preconditioning while plugged in at home. And even with the extreme cold, I don't need to plugin every time I return home.

Of course depends on your driving needs.

 

[sparty96]

I would give the 6-20 a try before paying for larger circuit install. I live in MN and I'm having no problems getting along with 6-20. My normal daily commute/driving is around 30-40 miles including short trips for gym and lunch. The other morning it was -17 in the morning with high of 1 deg. I started at 62% SOC and finished the day at 38% drove 34 total miles. Charged overnight for 9 hours to reach 78% SOC. I do normally use preconditioning while plugged in at home. And even with the extreme cold, I don't need to plugin every time I return home.

Of course depends on your driving needs.

I should have read the first post again. You obviously already are using 6-20 to charge in cold weather....

 

[BillRadio]

—I frequently use free PlugShare chargers nearby.
—Average amount of miles per month. 600-800.
—A 14-50 Nema would require thousands of dollars of updates in the panel.
—Living in WI sometimes I would like a faster charge especially when it’s really cold out.

Add me to the camp that says moving up is worth it. Moving up to a 14-30 would make quite a few improvements in your life:

• You will be making fewer PlugShare visits
• The electrician's Option 2 gets you maximum power for minimum outlay
• You will be ready for that unexpected trip that we all worry about: ER, airport, pizza, etc. (Just once is worth it!)
• You will be more able to take advantage of off-peak rates if they should come about. (I thought my electric co-op would never do it, but they did)
• While everyone says you get enough 'miles' with the 6-20, I would not want to sacrifice some of the other attributes of the car during cold weather. Pre-Heat, Sentry mode, warm seats, etc. I would be more concerned about using less of the car's features than I would range anxiety.
• Charging at a higher rate allows the car to 'sleep' more often which helps with self-diagnosis.

 

[MattM24]

Is it worth upgrading a 6-20 Nema to a 14-30?

MY LR
6-20 installed by master electrician last May inside our attached garage.

—I frequently use free PlugShare chargers nearby.
—Average amount of miles per month. 600-800.
—A 14-50 Nema would require thousands of dollars of updates in the panel.
—Living in WI sometimes I would like a faster charge especially when it’s really cold out.

In May I paid $600 for the 6-20 to be installed. Panel is 30 ft from garage located in our basement.

Option 1 - For $775 they would do this-
Install 30a 240v 14-30R outlet in Garage for EV Charger:
1-2 pole breaker installed in the sub- breaker panel
1-30a 240v circuit from panel thru unfinished basement to Garage wall
1-Install 14-30R 240v outlet on Garage wall fished in as wall construction allows

Option 2- For $565
And then I spoke to him again about what other options I had. Then he told me “I will be using the existing wire to pull in the new wire to the outlet in the garage. I will be getting back the 20a 2 pole breaker and putting in a 30a breaker. This should save time not having to fish in the new wire.

The existing wire size is #12. If you would allow us to pull out the existing 20a wire and use it to pull in the new 30a #10 wire from the basement, replace the existing outlet with a 14-30R outlet.”

I’m on team 30A in this case.
I have a 60A service and I drive 30km a day. It may be a total waste for most of the time, but I may also end up driving more daily or need a quick charge after a long drive.
It’s about flexibility.

Also, is there an option for a hardwired 40A service? That would double your charging speed.

 

[sleepydoc]

Reading through this thread, I still haven’t seen clarification of exactly how many kWh per day you use. Many people manage just fine with a 20A circuit, but it all depends on use.

Assuming that you use the plugshare charging locations out of necessity then I would agree with @MattM24 that upgrading to 30A would be worth it. 30A gives a 50% increase in charging speed and a 30% decrease in charging times so whether that is worth the money is ultimately your call.

 

[jsmay311]

Reading through this thread, I still haven’t seen clarification of exactly how many kWh per day you use. Many people manage just fine with a 20A circuit, but it all depends on use.

Assuming that you use the plugshare charging locations out of necessity then I would agree with @MattM24 that upgrading to 30A would be worth it. 30A gives a 50% increase in charging speed and a 30% decrease in charging times so whether that is worth the money is ultimately your call.

OP said 600-800 miles/month. With a MYP, depending on variables (driving efficiency, temperatures, preconditioning, etc.), that probably works out to no more than 350 kWh/month in winter months. That would equate to an average of ~3 hrs/day of charging at 3.8kW.

So a 6-20 outlet is plenty fast to do all charging at home. I.e., he's not using Plugshare chargers out of necessity. More than likely, it's just to save a few bucks by using free electricity. I also use a 6-20 outlet in a detached, unheated garage, and it works perfectly fine even on the coldest of days.

 

[sleepydoc]

OP said 600-800 miles/month. With a MYP, depending on variables (driving efficiency, temperatures, preconditioning, etc.), that probably works out to no more than 350 kWh/month in winter months. That would equate to an average of ~3 hrs/day of charging at 3.8kW.

So 6-20 is plenty fast to do all charging at home. I.e., he's not using Plugshare chargers out of necessity. More than likely, it's just to save a few bucks by using free electricity. I also use a 6-20 outlet in a detached, unheated garage, and it works perfectly fine even on the coldest of days.

Yes, but that's average. If s/he has days where they use more and they can't fully charge overnight then it might be worth upgrading. if they never go over 10kWh per day then you're completely correct taht 20A is fine.

 

[jsmay311]

if they never go over 10kWh per day then you're completely correct taht 20A is fine.

More like 40+kWh, assuming overnight charging for at least 10 hours.

 

[jcanoe]

I would charge my previous plug-in vehicle (2017 Chevy Volt) using an EVSE rated for 240V/20A (enables charging at up to 16A) at a charging rate of 3.6kW (vehicle limited.) I was commuting ~44 miles per day, ~4X more than I currently do. The full charge of the Volt's 14.3kWh (usable) battery would take 4 hours and 40 minutes, including charging losses this was ~16kWh. Most days I drove ~44 miles and charging would complete in ~3.5 hours.

When I started charging my 2020 LRMY I found that 240V/20A rated EVSE (charging 240V/16A, 3.8kW) enabled me to add 5% to the state of charge (SOC) to the Tesla's battery per hour. I upgraded to an EVSE capable of 240V/32A (7.7kW) and this enables me to add 10% to the SOC of the Tesla's battery per hour. (I had previously installed a NEMA 14-50 receptacle for use in charging the Volt. I swapped out the EVSE. I sold the 240V/16A capable EVSE to a Volt owner who was upgrading to 240V charging.) Although I appreciate the faster charging speed of the current 240V/32A setup I could have easily continued to use the 240V/16A charging setup since I currently drive just ~12 miles per day.

 

[Rocky_H]

Yes, but that's average. If s/he has days where they use more and they can't fully charge overnight then it might be worth upgrading. if they never go over 10kWh per day then you're completely correct taht 20A is fine.

You're forgetting to think this through all the way. You are going only by "If what was used that day can't be refilled in one overnight, then FAILURE!" But so what if they have an unusual day that's longer and then it takes two or three nights to fully catch back up? That's fine too, as long as it's not hitting the even lower probability that the person has two of those unusual days on consecutive days.

 

[sleepydoc]

You're forgetting to think this through all the way. You are going only by "If what was used that day can't be refilled in one overnight, then FAILURE!" But so what if they have an unusual day that's longer and then it takes two or three nights to fully catch back up? That's fine too, as long as it's not hitting the even lower probability that the person has two of those unusual days on consecutive days.

True. Implicit in my analysis was the assumption that they needed a full charge the next day. If that never (or rarely) happens then you’re right, they can just catch up over a couple of days.

The only drawback with who’s is psychological. If not being able to fully change every night causes angst then it may be worth it to them to get a larger circuit installed even if they don’t actually need it.

 

[SecondFiddle]

We have a 6-20. When we get back from a car trip with 10% at 10pm, it would only be back to 60% by 7am, but that’s not a problem for us. If I needed to do back-to-back 200 mile days, I’d stop at a SC. Even if that happened yearly, it would cost $10/year. In practice, the Y has always gotten back to 80% on the 2nd night.

Heck, my neighbors have an X and a Y and charge from their garage 120 (shared with a fridge and garage door opener). In MN.