60 mph; excellent road markings and AP2 tried to throw the car at the median

[_jal_]

I use AP only when I want to take a drink of water or something - just for a few seconds. I loved it right up through 17.17.4 but since then it will meander off for a number of reasons, like tar lines. It's just not worth the effort to monitor what the car is doing and the road conditions to make sure it's likely to be okay and do all the stuff I have to do when driving. So I just drive it myself. And it's weird because I will occasionally get the lane departure vibration and look and sure enough it think some line in the road is the lane line. I can only assume it would have followed that "lane line."

It is unsafe to use imo even with hands on the wheel because it will so assertively steer the car in a different direction. So it isn't just that it'll go straight when it should turn, but instead at any given time it is liable to steer you out of the lane and you have to actively defend against that maneuver. It's truly just not safe.

 

[Aeg07046]

So, I e-mailed [email protected] the link to this thread...

 

[Joe F]

I agree, at this point I'd rather have my 5k back. Its been so long and its getting worse and not better, I can't trust the system at all now and fear using it.

I don't know what version you are running, not which you've had in the past as you didn't say.

Having said that, you should make an appointment to get your car checked. Newer releases have not gotten worse at all. Quite the opposite, as has been noted by many. Some features have small changes which some may not like (lane change abruptness for one) however some may find they prefer snapping into a new lane. I for one, don't.

If you're experiencing worse AP performance, you may have a H/W alignment problem...

 

[bro1999]

It will be interesting to read/see the first reviews of Cadillac's Super Cruise.

 

[Joe F]

I use AP only when I want to take a drink of water or something - just for a few seconds. I loved it right up through 17.17.4 but since then it will meander off for a number of reasons, like tar lines.

I'll agree with this: Tar lines, with the right lighting conditions, are bad. Some roads to use AS is just not worth it.

 

[K-MTG]

How bad is the damage? Pics?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

There's a reason nobody else has released this type of feature in such a loosey-gooosey manner: It's not safe!

There should probaby be a money back option on AP

There is, it's called a lawsuit. It's already been filed and I can bet that Tesla will offer full refunds as a settlement. Tesla made its bed here. They made promises they couldn't fulfill and continue to make promises they cannot come remotely close to delivering. They keep digging themselves deeper into this hole, and I can only assume it's due to the over confidence and hubris of Musk.

Karpathy, the new head of Autopilot or whatever he is, says "Delivering autonomy at scale". What a bunch of nonsense! Tesla is no more delivering autonomy than they are pizzas. Tesla is really screwing itself by handling Autopilot as if it were some non-destructive, non-life threatening piece of code like MS Word. It's not. People could die and have died, and will likely continue to die until Tesla gets its act together.

I actually hope that the NHTSA or NTSB order Tesla to disable Autopilot until it can be properly vetted. It's simply too unstable and dangerous. Wait until thousands of Model 3 owners start getting thrown into opposite lanes of traffic or just over a cliff. Just wait for that lawsuit and NHTSA investigation. Tesla will be over.

 

[ecarfan]

@thegruf sorry to hear about your incident. My X is on the latest firmware and in over 2,000 miles of AP driving so far (I've taken quite a few road trips in the past 6 weeks) I have not experienced what you described. But I always keep my hand on the wheel when using AP. It definitely can be improved and I am confident it will be.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

@thegruf sorry to hear about your incident. My X is on the latest firmware and in over 2,000 miles of AP driving so far (I've taken quite a few road trips in the past 6 weeks) I have not experienced what you described. But I always keep my hand on the wheel when using AP. It definitely can be improved and I am confident it will be.

I would like to point out that keeping your hands on the wheel doesn't really help. I've driven Autopilot and the force needed to overcome the tension on the wheel is substantial. By the time you notice what happened, react to what is happening, and then must steer to compensate and overcome tension in the wheel, may be too late. It's only a matter of time before something terrible happens.

The number of reports of Autopilot putting drivers in danger far outweigh the number of reported instances where Autopilot actually helped avoid an accident.

 

[Tangible]

Every day we get closer to joining the class action lawsuit.

Actually, class action membership is passive. If the class is certified and the definition fits, you are part of the lawsuit unless you take action to remove yourself.

I do believe we are owed a refund, but what I really want is a working and safe autonomous driving experience. Now that Mobileye belongs to Intel, maybe Tesla should go back to them and beg to be taken back. It's increasingly clear that Tesla doesn't have the skills in-house to get this done.

 

[thegruf]

There's a reason nobody else has released this type of feature in such a loosey-gooosey manner: It's not safe!

Karpathy, the new head of Autopilot or whatever he is, says "Delivering autonomy at scale". What a bunch of nonsense! ... People could die and have died, and will likely continue to die until Tesla gets its act together...

I respect your opinion but it it is the polar (ahem) opposite of my view.

There is the well publicised fatality of course
Statistically there is also increasing evidence that overall autopiot is already overall safer than human drivers.
Of course fatalities sell much more advertising than statistical safety.

The aberrrations per my OP are certainly something to complain about and encourage Tesla to improve upon, but whilst they degrade the usefulness, the system when used correctly with hands on the wheel as required by the manufacturer is clearly the best available of any manufacturer today and has much potential for ongoing improvements.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I respect your opinion but it it is the polar (ahem) opposite of my view.

There is the well publicised fatality of course
Statistically there is also increasing evidence that overall autopiot is already overall safer than human drivers.
Of course fatalities sell much more advertising than statistical safety.

The aberrrations per my OP are certainly something to complain about and encourage Tesla to improve upon, but whilst they degrade the usefulness, the system when used correctly with hands on the wheel as required by the manufacturer is clearly the best available of any manufacturer today and has much potential for ongoing improvements.

I understand that my view runs contrary to that of many here, but I'm also putting myself into the shoes of an ordinary vehicle purchaser who does not share the same "early adopter" or "beta tester" mentality that many of us do.

 

[thegruf]

... It's increasingly clear that Tesla doesn't have the skills in-house to get this done.

That comment is bordering on the bizarre imo.
Tesla have largely re-created in 12-18 months what a $15Bn company spent more than a decade working on, and then Tesla themselves spent more than 12 months implementing and constantly refining in the guise of AP1.

Certainly the split with Mobileye was more abrupt than either party planeed, but Tesla's achievement since, albeit still with flaws, is monumental. I can also still recall the development of AP1 and its early erratic behavior, and consider that AP2 is about 3 months out from AP1 in its (near) final form.

 

[Tangible]

the system when used correctly with hands on the wheel as required by the manufacturer is clearly the best available of any manufacturer today

I don't know about today, but the 2013 Audi A6 I traded for my S was better at both lane keeping and adaptive cruise control. It had, and used, eight cameras.

 

[thegruf]

I understand that my view runs contrary to that of many here, but I'm also putting myself into the shoes of an ordinary vehicle purchaser who does not share the same "early adopter" or "beta tester" mentality that many of us do.

Providing the "ordinary vehicle purchaser" uses the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's instruction it is not only safe, but statistically safer than other vehicles without Tesla autopilot technology, occasional aberrant behavior notwithstanding.

no?

 

[Skotty]

This is all playing out exactly as I expected. I was originally negative towards Tesla pursuing autonomous driving because I knew people would expect too much too quickly and cry foul. But it was so popular, I eventually conceded that it was something Tesla should work on. But it's going to be a long hard road ahead for customers, Tesla, and Tesla engineers alike for a long time to come.

 

[dailo]

I wish there were two beta/stable track that you could choose on the car. By default cars could be on a stable build which has been well tested (release once a quarter, maybe?) and those are willing to take more risk could be on the beta track to get weekly updates and give their feedback. I know we aren't talking about a phone OS here, but I think it would be better overall for everyone instead of being randomly selected.

 

[thegruf]

I have little experience of the Audi A6 lane keeping to be fair, other than one I had a loaner I had whilst my RS5 was in service.
What experience I did get proved to me that it was utterly useless and for sure would not be an option box I would not have ticked at the time.

 

[Tangible]

Tesla have largely re-created in 12-18 months

Actually,,Tesla completed the AP2 software, including all promised EAP features, last December. I know this because they assured me, in writing, that EAP was awaiting only final validation when I committed in November.

Bitterness about those lies aside, I don't see steady progress with a stable development team. I see constant management changes and releases that sometimes make things worse. The feature Tesla most importantly lacks is traction control: They keep spinning their wheels.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Soooooo.... does this mean a tesla driving coast to coast without driver input isn't happening this year?