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6th drive unit replacement and more

smac

Active Member
Aug 4, 2013
1,745
837
Nottinghamshire
Sorry to hear this Dave, I know exactly how you feel!

My car must have been produced around the same time as yours,(similar VIN) and my experiences match so closely.
 
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CLLACAB

Member
Dec 11, 2014
452
140
Las Vegas, NV
You should definitely look at the lemon law. In California it applies while the car is under warranty, which I assume yours is. You will lose a bit based upon prorated miles with the denominator being 120K miles.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,129
32,394
Oregon
You should definitely look at the lemon law. In California it applies while the car is under warranty, which I assume yours is. You will lose a bit based upon prorated miles with the denominator being 120K miles.

From what he has said he has north of 90k miles on the car, so I'm not sure the lemon law would be of much value even if he could still enact it.
 

wdolson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2015
7,443
9,931
Clark Co, WA
The window for California's Lemon Law may be closed:


Lemon Law Presumption*

Within the Song-Beverly Act, there is a presumption guideline
wherein it is presumed that a vehicle is a “lemon” if the following
criteria are met within 18 months of delivery to the buyer or
lessee or 18,000 miles on the vehicle’s odometer, whichever
comes first:

• The manufacturer or its agents have made two or more
attempts to repair a warranty problem that results in a
condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily
injury if the vehicle is driven;

• The manufacturer or its agents have made four or more
attempts to repair the same warranty problem; or

• The vehicle has been out of service for more than 30
days (not necessarily all at the same time) while being
repaired for any number of warranty problems; or

• The problems are covered by the warranty, substantially
reduce the vehicle’s use, value, or safety to the consumer
and are not caused by abuse of the vehicle;

• If required by the warranty materials or by the owner’s
manual, the consumer has to directly notify the
manufacturer about the problem(s), preferably in writing.

The notice must be sent to the address shown in the
warranty or owner’s manual (for bullets 1 and 2).

If these criteria are met, the Lemon Law presumes that the buyer
or lessee is entitled to a replacement vehicle or a refund of the
purchase price. However, this presumption is rebuttable. The
manufacturer may show that the criteria has not been met (for
example, because the problems are minor) and therefore, the
buyer or lessee is not entitled to a replacement vehicle or refund.

*Source: California Civil Code Section 1793.22(b).

More details here http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf
 
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LastNLSig

Active Member
Aug 22, 2013
1,130
459
Netherlands
For what it's worth, I am sharing some of David99's frustrations. I am at my 8th DU! (even 9th if the one is included that was once mounted but removed immediately after the Tesla engineers test drove it).

Sometimes the complaint is the inverter nose (around 60-70 km/h) but mostly the buzzing noise around 120-130 km/h.

Tesla SC/engineers are doing what they can. Last time they really picked what they (on the basis of test reports) believed to be the best/most silent DU. And indeed after they installed it I had an almost perfectly silent car again (some DU have the issue straight away, some only after driving it for 10-20k km.

The result was so good that we even celebrated the 'final delivery' of the car with cake.

However now after a couple of months the DU is starting to be loud again at 120-130 km/h. The problem is that you almost feel embarrassed to go complain again. But eventually I will (again).

I now have a P reversion (on my P85 from Sept 2013). Supposedly the same as the Q revision, but P seems to be for 'sports' DU (Performance) what Q is for 'regular' DU.

I stopped believing that I am just unlucky to get the 'bad' DU's. It seems more likely that 'something' (specific to my car) is causing the issue. But as the standard routine is to replace the DU, I wonder whether we will ever find it.
 
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Dennis87

Member
Nov 15, 2014
364
198
Norway
When they have replaced the Drive Unit so many times is must be some other issues with the car. Maybe the frame or the car itself is not produced after the correct specifications. So the load on the bearings on the Drive Unit is wrong.
 
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bxr140

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
2,664
3,509
Bay Area
I'm 'only' on DU #3 (~55k miles, Jan 2014 pick up) but am also a little worried, especially when 100k miles hits and my extended warranty runs out. Sure, I could probably fight to keep the replacements going [at no cost], but I shouldn't have to. I have a Q now, so perhaps it will be okay...?

Interestingly, for the second swap they basically had me signed up for a replacement based on my emailed pre-visit list of issues. The technician test drive to verify noise was little more than formality.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,129
32,394
Oregon
I'm 'only' on DU #3 (~55k miles, Jan 2014 pick up) but am also a little worried, especially when 100k miles hits and my extended warranty runs out. Sure, I could probably fight to keep the replacements going [at no cost], but I shouldn't have to. I have a Q now, so perhaps it will be okay...?

But the battery/drive train is covered under the factory 8 year/unlimited mile warranty. So you shouldn't have to worry about that at all.

On the other hand if you still have a gen 1 charger in your car that is something I might worry about...
 

KJD

Supporting Member
Dec 14, 2013
1,283
916
SLC, UT
For what it's worth, I am sharing some of David99's frustrations. I am at my 8th DU! (even 9th if the one is included that was once mounted but removed immediately after the Tesla engineers test drove it).
Sometimes the complaint is the inverter nose (around 60-70 km/h) but mostly the buzzing noise around 120-130 km/h.
Have they ever tried replacing the inverter instead of the drive unit?
 

zambono

Active Member
Mar 1, 2016
1,160
607
DC
I'm 'only' on DU #3 (~55k miles, Jan 2014 pick up) but am also a little worried, especially when 100k miles hits and my extended warranty runs out. Sure, I could probably fight to keep the replacements going [at no cost], but I shouldn't have to. I have a Q now, so perhaps it will be okay...?

Interestingly, for the second swap they basically had me signed up for a replacement based on my emailed pre-visit list of issues. The technician test drive to verify noise was little more than formality.

Your battery and drive unit is covered for 8 years regardless of mileage
 

LastNLSig

Active Member
Aug 22, 2013
1,130
459
Netherlands
When they have replaced the Drive Unit so many times is must be some other issues with the car. Maybe the frame or the car itself is not produced after the correct specifications. So the load on the bearings on the Drive Unit is wrong.
Could very well be. My body is not up to spec either. The right rear door and tailgate do not really fit nicely.
According to Tesla it is now within (their) spec. But the spec is about 1,5mm off target.
If you would get your car back from the body shop after repair and panels would not be flush but 1,5 mm off, you would for sure send it back...
 

jkk_

Member
Nov 16, 2015
356
139
Finland
Just a thought, were the cars that are having problems produced near the end of quarter? So if something was rushed in order for them to make for end of quarter reports?

Of course, that might only be the reason for the problems, not the cause, i.e., what's actually wrong.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,677
5,693
Merced, CA
Yep, I don't believe in being mean or dramatic. That's why I was patient and gave them many opportunities to make things right. But now I'm at the end of my patience.

An interesting piece of info regarding the inverter/motor noise. It seems to always get louder over time. It always took about 15k miles before it become unacceptable. This last time though I drove almost 20k miles and the noise was still faint. Then I took a 4400 mile road trip and now it's very loud. Thinking back those last 20k miles I hardly did any road trips, just lots of daily driving. So maybe going at higher speeds makes it worse. In my daily driving I hardly go faster than 60 mph. On the last road trip, I was going between 70 and 90 mph for the majority of the time.

I looked but I guess I missed where you mentioned how many miles you have on the car?
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,677
5,693
Merced, CA
Tesla appears to have had more problems with the large drive units than the small. The RWD and the P85D/P90Ds have large rear motors. I have heard of only a handful of smaller motors being replaced.

The car is probably too old for the lemon laws to apply, though each state is a bit different. I know kmanauto (islandbayy here on the forum) who video blogs on YouTube got Tesla to buy back his early 60 that had a lot of problems they couldn't seem to fix. He replaced it with a S90D and seems pretty happy with it.

It's not the age. If there are more than 4 repair attempts or the car is unusable for more than 30 days(cumulative) within the warranty period/miles, then you can invoke the lemon law. Since he's in california he's actually got the federal Magnuson-Moss and the California Song-Beverly.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,129
32,394
Oregon
It's not the age. If there are more than 4 repair attempts or the car is unusable for more than 30 days(cumulative) within the warranty period/miles, then you can invoke the lemon law. Since he's in california he's actually got the federal Magnuson-Moss and the California Song-Beverly.

But age does matter, from what someone posted above "within 18 months of delivery to the buyer or lessee or 18,000 miles on the vehicle’s odometer." So you only have 18 months or 18,000 miles whichever comes first for it to be a "lemon".

He is obviously way past that.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,677
5,693
Merced, CA
But age does matter, from what someone posted above "within 18 months of delivery to the buyer or lessee or 18,000 miles on the vehicle’s odometer." So you only have 18 months or 18,000 miles whichever comes first for it to be a "lemon".

He is obviously way past that.

With Song-Beverly. With Magnuson-Moss it just has to be under warranty still.

Song-Beverly is more consumer friendly though and is better at making the consumer whole. In my case, my 2001 C5 Corvette was bought back under Song-Beverly at 18 months and 17K miles. I received the full purchase price + tax, + 2 years of paid registration + $5K + attorney fees.
 

Ingineer

Electrical Engineer
Aug 8, 2012
1,507
3,697
I don't see how a misaligned anything with the body could put stress on the DU mechanically. The DU is attached by 3 compliant isolation bushings to a subframe, that is in-turn, attached to the body with 4 isolators. My wife's P85D is a 2014 salvage car that was hit extremely bad in the back, and it's DU is fine. (so far)

After 5 (or 8!) replacements, I'd DEMAND a new, not remanufactured, unit. It does appear the newer cars have less DU faults, but clearly the remanufactured units, regardless of revision, have a poor reliability record.
 

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