6th drive unit replacement and more

[MP3Mike]

They would in Oregon. 3rd replacement you would score big time....cha ching!

Doubtful. Oregon’s lemon law only extends protection to 2 years or 24,000 miles from the purchase or lease of a new vehicle. His second DU replacement was at around 30,000 miles, so the Oregon lemon law no longer applies.

From what I can tell the only state that you could possibly get longer lemon coverage in is New Hampshire as the lemon law coverage period is within 1 year of expiration of express warranty period or final repair attempt. But New Hampshire's "Lemon Law" (RSA 357-D) applies only to new vehicles purchased from New Hampshire dealerships. Does Tesla actually have a New Hampshire dealership?

 

[Ingineer]

It is not a "grounding issue". Mechanical systems involve tolerances. The tolerances describe the apparent randomness.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Maybe it's time for a new car.

LOL

 

[David99]

Every time I drive my kids around they tell me how annoying the noise is in the back seats! Just tonight my 12 year old asked me, 'is the car supposed to make that noise?'. After an initial reply to my email I have not heard from Tesla. My local Service Center manager, who reads here sometimes, found this discussion and called me, but I told him after having swapped out the drive unit 6 times I lost confidence and got tired of going to a service center for the same issue over and over. The solution must be something else than keep bringing the car in every 15k miles which in my case is every 4 months.

 

[TaoJones]

Same with regard to the need for yet another set of rotors. 6 sets in 18 months is way past ridiculous.

Meanwhile, approaching 55,000 miles with the OEM Michelins. Those have held up really well.

 

[Mickie]

Sorry if my answer is on page 2 or 3 as I read only the first and last pages, but did you pursue the Lemon Law issue?

 

[David99]

Sorry if my answer is on page 2 or 3 as I read only the first and last pages, but did you pursue the Lemon Law issue?

In California it's limited to 18 months or 18k miles whatever comes first. I'm way passed both so I doubt I can use the lemon law in my case. I will still talk to an attorney and see what he says. I would much prefer to find a solution with Tesla.

 

[Mickie]

In California it's limited to 18 months or 18k miles whatever comes first. I'm way passed both so I doubt I can use the lemon law in my case. I will still talk to an attorney and see what he says. I would much prefer to find a solution with Tesla.

I agree then, an active solution with Tesla is the best way. I'd be surprised if they didn't do something to ultimately remedy your situation. Best of luck and keep us posted, please.

 

[Norfolk Enchants]

If this happened once I'd be fine, but now it's due for it's 6th drive unit for the same problem over again? Tesla obviously can't fix it. They keep putting a bandaid on it and 15k miles later it's making the same noise again.

As others have mentioned, I strongly suspect that there is a link between the mechanical and electrical here. Yes, the issue is manifesting itself with the DU, but likely mechanical stresses from something being out of alignment are likely causing the DU issue. The sheer number of DUs that you have had, and the repetition of the same issues over and over again, assessed in comparison to other owners that have never had a DU issue, point that something else is at work here.

I would ask for your car to be placed and checked on one of the body repair jigs that Tesla approved bodyshops have - wouldn't surprise me if something is out of alignment from a structural or suspension mounting POV. Has your car ever had some sort of body repair or accident, even a relatively low speed one?

 

[David99]

As others have mentioned, I strongly suspect that there is a link between the mechanical and electrical here. Yes, the issue is manifesting itself with the DU, but likely mechanical stresses from something being out of alignment are likely causing the DU issue. The sheer number of DUs that you have had, and the repetition of the same issues over and over again, assessed in comparison to other owners that have never had a DU issue, point that something else is at work here.

I would ask for your car to be placed and checked on one of the body repair jigs that Tesla approved bodyshops have - wouldn't surprise me if something is out of alignment from a structural or suspension mounting POV. Has your car ever had some sort of body repair or accident, even a relatively low speed one?

Interesting thoughts! I didn't have any accidents or abuse all this time. Someone read-ened me about 10k miles ago, but the impact was so small it could not have possibly caused anything.

 

[Darren Donovan]

Wow, as a prospective MS and M3 customer, and a fan of EV in general, this concerns me. I notice that quite a few of MS and MX are afflicted with other issues as well, problems that shouldn't be there, given the price of these vehicles. The much touted slogan of needing much less repair visits compared to conventional cars is ironic to these MS owners. I recently returned a leased Volt, no issues after 45000 miles. Currently driving a Spark, 17000 miles and no visits to the dealership. My interest in Tesla is only because of the supercharging network, something no other manufacturers have. Reliability is not Tesla's strong point, at least not from what I've seen.

 

[ChadS]

Tesla has sold around 100k vehicles. Typical new-car problem rates vary from 0.5% to 5%, so that's about 500 to 5,000 vehicles. Assume 10% of those post here (obviously I am guessing at that number, but it's round and plausible, especially given that we have seen a number of people sign up just to report a problem), that's 50 to 500 people we'd expect to see posting here about problems even if Tesla fits right in with the industry averages. It seems to me we are indeed seeing reports somewhere in that range.

Tesla may have a problem, but you can't determine that by reading the forums, because you don't hear at equal rates from people without problems. Really only Tesla knows for sure.

 

[David99]

Wow, as a prospective MS and M3 customer, and a fan of EV in general, this concerns me. I notice that quite a few of MS and MX are afflicted with other issues as well, problems that shouldn't be there, given the price of these vehicles. The much touted slogan of needing much less repair visits compared to conventional cars is ironic to these MS owners. I recently returned a leased Volt, no issues after 45000 miles. Currently driving a Spark, 17000 miles and no visits to the dealership. My interest in Tesla is only because of the supercharging network, something no other manufacturers have. Reliability is not Tesla's strong point, at least not from what I've seen.

Tesla is definitely on the lower end of ratings when it comes to issues and reliability. Many surveys and statistics show that clearly. If you want a car that has no issues, a Tesla is not a good choice. I bought a Tesla because it was for the right thing to do and I was expecting some issues. But not major issues that come back again and again.

I really wanted to buy a Model X but held off ordering one because of the issues my Model S had and still has and Tesla still can't fix. I used to recommend Tesla all the time when people asked me. Many of the people I talked to ended up buying a Tesla because of my recommendations. I definitely won't be doing that any more.

 

[Chopr147]

Tesla has sold around 100k vehicles. Typical new-car problem rates vary from 0.5% to 5%, so that's about 500 to 5,000 vehicles. Assume 10% of those post here (obviously I am guessing at that number, but it's round and plausible, especially given that we have seen a number of people sign up just to report a problem), that's 50 to 500 people we'd expect to see posting here about problems even if Tesla fits right in with the industry averages. It seems to me we are indeed seeing reports somewhere in that range.

Tesla may have a problem, but you can't determine that by reading the forums, because you don't hear at equal rates from people without problems. Really only Tesla knows for sure.

Good point! I have been on the Tahoe/Yukon forum for about 8 years now. Same thing. Some people sign up just to report problems they have been having. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that. If you are having such bad transmission problems (a weakness) it just makes sense to speak with other owners. It does worry me some that David99 has had DU issues but that does not seem to be prevalent among owners here. AND, he may even get some ideas the mechanics have not thought about. Good luck David99 on getting that fixed.

 

[NuclearPowered]

For what its worth, my P85 also has the low speed buzzing. Occurs between ~10-30kW of applied power. On my 2nd DU, which is a P revision. Low 7000s VIN. Haven't bothered to have it replaced since it will likely just happen again.

 

[Ingineer]

I'll say it one more time: The DU is rubber mounted to a subframe which is in-turn rubber mounted to the body. There is no way a misaligned body could put stress on the DU housing. The only other mechanical connections are the 2 half-shafts equipped with CV joints that allow flexing.

 

[wdolson]

Tesla has sold around 100k vehicles. Typical new-car problem rates vary from 0.5% to 5%, so that's about 500 to 5,000 vehicles. Assume 10% of those post here (obviously I am guessing at that number, but it's round and plausible, especially given that we have seen a number of people sign up just to report a problem), that's 50 to 500 people we'd expect to see posting here about problems even if Tesla fits right in with the industry averages. It seems to me we are indeed seeing reports somewhere in that range.

Tesla may have a problem, but you can't determine that by reading the forums, because you don't hear at equal rates from people without problems. Really only Tesla knows for sure.

The Model S VINs being issued today are up around 160000 and I think they have built about 20K Model Xs at this point.

I think the number of owners who post here are much less than 10% of the total owners out there.

Tesla is definitely on the lower end of ratings when it comes to issues and reliability. Many surveys and statistics show that clearly. If you want a car that has no issues, a Tesla is not a good choice. I bought a Tesla because it was for the right thing to do and I was expecting some issues. But not major issues that come back again and again.

I really wanted to buy a Model X but held off ordering one because of the issues my Model S had and still has and Tesla still can't fix. I used to recommend Tesla all the time when people asked me. Many of the people I talked to ended up buying a Tesla because of my recommendations. I definitely won't be doing that any more.

According to your sig, you have a 2014. It's a bit early for much hard data on 2015 and 2016 Ss, but from what I have seen between comments from 2015 and 2016 owners, the quality has improved quite a bit. People who have sold older Ss and bought a 15 or 16 have commented on much better initial quality.

The Model X does have a lot of teething problems. I wouldn't buy one any time soon. It is so difficult to build, I suspect they will continue to have some problems until they make some engineering changes to make them easier to build.

 

[GregRF]

I'll say it one more time: The DU is rubber mounted to a subframe which is in-turn rubber mounted to the body. There is no way a misaligned body could put stress on the DU housing. The only other mechanical connections are the 2 half-shafts equipped with CV joints that allow flexing.

Seems unlikely, but along with his fishtailing I can't help but thinking something could be wrong with the drive subframe. Perhaps bent or broken that allows for more flex than normal?

 

[Ingineer]

Suspension alignment or tires could cause fishtailing. I had a loose integral link on one of my cars that caused a crazy pull to one side on acceleration. However, no amount of these conditions could affect bearings or geartrain inside the DU.

 

[scottm]

Same with regard to the need for yet another set of rotors. 6 sets in 18 months is way past ridiculous.

Meanwhile, approaching 55,000 miles with the OEM Michelins. Those have held up really well.

Did you inspect for frozen brake pads?

I was thinking my rotor/s were warping... and was ready to change them.. because I was getting pulsations. Then I checked and 3 out of 4 inside brake pads were frozen in place because of encrusting of road grime. Only the outside pads were doing any work ... and in retrospect ... that's why my stopping distances and stopping power were declining. Ever so subtly over time that you don't really notice. Especially on an EV where you mostly regen. Until one day you need the stopping distance, and hey! why is the car not biting !?

Once the pads were unstuck and cleaned up (and I applied a little no-seize compound around the sliding edges)... like magic! No more pulsations, instant braking response, short distances, great grab.

No longer was only one side of the rotors being used for friction. Calipers work much better when they pinch the disc from both sides, rather than "lean one pad against one side". Heating up the rotor on one side only... that will probably eventually lead to real warp.

I had been driving for probably a year with less than 50% braking power available.

So, it's worth a check, and could explain why replacing rotors over and over again is not going anywhere. Maybe it's not a rotor problem?

Here's the thing... my car passed its annual service while the pads were frozen! The car was driven and got a check for brakes. It's the kind of problem you don't notice unless you're driving fast and need to brake hard on a hiway. So the city test Tesla does, won't necessarily catch this problem. A visual inspection cannot be made reliably enough to see frozen inside pads. You have to take the calipers off and then it becomes pretty apparent.

Getting your head around and looking at the inside side of the rotor you might notice a different appearance - mine were blotchy and "cold" looking. Still streaked in arcs like you'd expect but not as shiny as the outside side was. Using a mirror would be a good quick check idea instead of stuffing your head into the wheelwell.

As part of tire change-over for seasons (2 x per year), I now remove the brake calipers and inspect pad thickness and mobility.

I fixed this problem in my garage, for free. Which is what I like to do with cars I own, if I can. Even if it's on warranty. Gimme the service manual... I'll gladly do my own annual maintenance and pay myself twice as much as what Tesla wants !