8.0 (2.50.185) caution using TACC/Autosteer features

[NerdUno]

If you've never owned a vehicle manufactured in close proximity to a major holiday, consider yourself lucky. You're correct, and I fully appreciate that Tesla didn't start working on this on Dec. 26. Nevertheless, many folks were working long hours, seven days a week according to Elon Musk, and people really do think of things other than work this time of the year... which is a good thing.

 

[Ulmo]

I don't have an AP2 car, but unless something is radically different, you can regain full control by simply pushing the stalk (the one that you pull to engage TACC and Autosteer) away from you. You don't need to actually brake.

Hmm. I think that during an emergency driving situation, I'd be having a hard time figuring out which one of the 4 sticks poking out of the steering wheel stalk that is, and in which direction I'd have to push, twist, pull or move it. That's like 5*4=20 different possibilities, and while I'm contemplating that, boom! It might even take so long to figure out that what was a non-emergency could turn into an emergency. I agree with OP that tapping the brakes is often the easiest to do safely, and could be the best muscle memory training. Also, in consideration of the tapped brake lights as seen from behind, perhaps the driver behind will find that information useful, not bad.

 

[chillaban]

And in an emergency driving situation, which one of the 4 sticks poking out of the steering wheel is that, and in which direction do you have to push it? That's like 5x4=20 different possibilities, and while you're contemplating that, boom!

I don't think anyone was suggesting the stalk was for emergency situations... It's for preemptively recognizing a situation that AP would not handle well and gracefully disconnecting it without an unnecessary flash of the brake lights or abrupt steering input.

 

[Andyw2100]

And in an emergency driving situation, which one of the 4 sticks poking out of the steering wheel is that, and in which direction do you have to push it? That's like 5x4=20 different possibilities, and while you're contemplating that, boom!

Did I say that one should disengage TACC that way in an emergency situation? Did I come anywhere close to saying that?

The original poster--a fairly new owner--had said he was taking back control by hitting the brakes, and I was trying to be helpful by pointing out that there was another way that did not involve braking that would accomplish the same thing.

Please don't twist my words into something I never said.

 

[Ulmo]

I don't think anyone was suggesting the stalk was for emergency situations... It's for preemptively recognizing a situation that AP would not handle well and gracefully disconnecting it without an unnecessary flash of the brake lights or abrupt steering input.

Agreed, except that my mental reaction time for deciding to preempt the assistance is far faster than my mental knowledge time to figure out which of the 3 stalks sticking out at the left side are the correct one, added to the time to figure out which direction to push it (I'm assuming push as I write this).

Did I say that one should disengage TACC that way in an emergency situation?

...

Please don't twist my words into something I never said.

I added the "emergency" as a potential situation, whether forseen or not. Your words were twisted, explored, enhanced and considered, and replied to, but I didn't mean for you to own the twisted version of them. Sorry.

I don't think anyone was suggesting the stalk was for emergency situations... It's for preemptively recognizing a situation that AP would not handle well and gracefully disconnecting it without an unnecessary flash of the brake lights or abrupt steering input.

I agree, and unfortunately, the difference between those two things can be negligible in some situations, and very little in others. Worse, a non-emergency can turn into an emergency while trying to figure out which button.

I share your concerns that tapping the brake causes the brake lights to go on, and I disliked it as soon as I read that OP had done so for the same reasons, but as I thought about posting the same response you did, I realized there's an underlying reason it may be preferable in muscle memory.

Now, circling around again, I'm realizing that a driver behind me, upon seeing a tapped brake light situation, could use that as useful information, and not be caused to cause an accident. However, it could cause a freeway to slow down and become more dangerous over all.

 

[TFHutch]

Just an observation.
My wife and I went for a cruise from Dec 20 to Dec 30. 10 days of fun and sun.
We drove the Accord to the parking facility, did'nt dare leave the Model S in Valet parking for 10 days. After our return, got back in the Tesla and scared myself badly with AP 1 update(s). Tesla remains in the garage except for long trips, the Accord is now my daily driver for local trips. I am very disappointed with AP 1 updates, was happy with 7.1 and wish I could go back to it. I feel that Tesla has screwed up a great product messing with what worked well. I still have 2 years on my lease and will consider alternatives to Tesla at that time. I do not like over the air updates and am no longer interested in being a genie pig for Tesla software. Can someone please help me to disable further "improvements " from Tesla?
Thank you

 

[vandacca]

With the 8.0 update, Tesla began to rely more on radar input. It has taken some time for the AI training to catch up to the level of the 7.1. However, with the last update, I'm feeling more comfortable with the AutoPilot.

I still only use it in limited circumstances (carpool lane, light traffic and stop-n-go traffic) as it's never been comfortable enough (for me) to use in heavy traffic.

I suspect that in the next 6 months, it'll be better than 7.1 ever was. Maybe with the 8.1 update.

 

[Andyw2100]

I do not like over the air updates and am no longer interested in being a genie pig for Tesla software.

Don't be a genie pig! Just say no!

 

[habanero69]

My recent trip that included about 1600 miles, has changed my outlook and use of AP1. My S far too many times did the suicide peek at on coming traffic on hill crests and was like a dog sniffing another's butt when a semi rolled by. Too many close calls to count. I ended up using TACC only for a fair amount of the trip. In stop/go fullAP1 seemed to behave. But those sudden deviations as mentioned above were just too unnerving. If I'd not taken immediate action a couple of times, an accident for sure would have been the result. It made no difference after the most recent update. I saw no AP1 changes but did observer the lovely music EQ bug where it cant remember its settings. REALLY? SEND me the code. That has to be a 5 line fix...

 

[Simon_elf]

My turn signal today suddenly lost sound. It did blink but you can't hear the click sound in cabin. The new firmware looks like need more validation. I've tried soft reboot the touch screen and center cluster. Still not working. Reported to tesla.

 

[u00mem9]

With the 8.0 update, Tesla began to rely more on radar input. It has taken some time for the AI training to catch up to the level of the 7.1. However, with the last update, I'm feeling more comfortable with the AutoPilot.

I still only use it in limited circumstances (carpool lane, light traffic and stop-n-go traffic) as it's never been comfortable enough (for me) to use in heavy traffic.

I suspect that in the next 6 months, it'll be better than 7.1 ever was. Maybe with the 8.1 update.

Who told you that?! 7.1 level performance is NEVER coming back to AP1.0. If that is unacceptable to you, let Tesla know directly. It is utter horsesh*t that they pulled this downgrade veiled as a media player upgrade.

AI training....lol. Hype sucks.

 

[BerTX]

My recent trip that included about 1600 miles, has changed my outlook and use of AP1. My S far too many times did the suicide peek at on coming traffic on hill crests and was like a dog sniffing another's butt when a semi rolled by. Too many close calls to count. I ended up using TACC only for a fair amount of the trip. In stop/go fullAP1 seemed to behave. But those sudden deviations as mentioned above were just too unnerving. If I'd not taken immediate action a couple of times, an accident for sure would have been the result. It made no difference after the most recent update. I saw no AP1 changes but did observer the lovely music EQ bug where it cant remember its settings. REALLY? SEND me the code. That has to be a 5 line fix...

I have similar feelings, but I still use Autosteer when I feel it is more relaxing than not using it. That means no hills and no trucks. I don't use it much, because being nagged is not relaxing to me.

I think of AP1 as driving like a tipsy driver at night, trying not to get caught. When drivers do that, they focus on the road 15 feet in front of the car and don't look further down the road to see what is coming up. They concentrate on just keeping it between the lines. If there's no traffic and the road is good with no oncoming traffic, they might be OK.

 

[habanero69]

I have similar feelings, but I still use Autosteer when I feel it is more relaxing than not using it. That means no hills and no trucks. I don't use it much, because being nagged is not relaxing to me.

I think of AP1 as driving like a tipsy driver at night, trying not to get caught. When drivers do that, they focus on the road 15 feet in front of the car and don't look further down the road to see what is coming up. They concentrate on just keeping it between the lines. If there's no traffic and the road is good with no oncoming traffic, they might be OK.

Your tipsy analysis is spot on. The car seems to focus on the wrong spatial "picture". I did use AP1 as you, where light in traffic, no trucks, and relatively straight/level roadway. The hill/crest issue is definitely worse than when I picked up the car 4 months ago. Where in the software evolution it went south (or into oncoming ). I don't know...

 

[outie]

As Tesla fanboys would say - that's fine, it sounds like you shouldn't use it.

Upset with lack of features on Hardware 2.0

 

[dhanson865]

Serious question:
Does Tesla have employees or volunteers to drive these vehicles, in real time parallel to customer/owners, strictly to get the software up to speed and safe?

Elon Musk personally drives AP with beta builds before you see them. He reports bugs as he finds them and they are addressed in future builds.

"I’m testing the latest version of autopilot every week," he said. "Typically, two or three builds per week that I’m testing on my car... But it is quite a tricky thing and we want to make sure our testing is exhaustive before releasing the software. But if we keep making progress I think we will be able to get it out to early access customers, which is our public beta program, around the end of this month. The expectation is that someone is paying attention to the road and is ready to take over if there’s an issue."

He mentions that he tests AP personally in numerous interviews and has even mentioned it at earnings reports (quarterly or annual I don't remember, just remember him saying it different ways at different meetings.)

 

[ZeroDarkSilver]

I have similar feelings, but I still use Autosteer when I feel it is more relaxing than not using it. That means no hills and no trucks. I don't use it much, because being nagged is not relaxing to me.

I think of AP1 as driving like a tipsy driver at night, trying not to get caught. When drivers do that, they focus on the road 15 feet in front of the car and don't look further down the road to see what is coming up. They concentrate on just keeping it between the lines. If there's no traffic and the road is good with no oncoming traffic, they might be OK.

It's interesting to read other people's AP1 experiences, especially those who don't have confidence in AP1 enough to use it most of the time. I live and commute in Northern California and find that AP1 performs extremely well on freeways virtually 100% of the time. I've only had issues at dusk when the sun is directly in the car's eyes (and mine too, it's not a cakewalk for me to drive in those conditions either), or when the lane markings are severely degraded or gone (such as when the transpo dept is realigning lanes).

When you say tipsy, I imagine the car drifting back and forth between lane markings, is that what you're experiencing? I had a little bit of this when I first got the car, but these days and for a long time now, it's so good that my passengers cannot tell the difference between me driving and the AP1 driving (and not because I usually drive tipsy .

 

[ZeroDarkSilver]

To try and get better data for TACC follow distance, I took my Volt out which has numerical numbers for following distance.
I am confident in placing AP2 TACC at between 1.3 and 1.5 seconds for setting number 7.
I think Tesla should change the dial settings to "following distance in time" and not abstract it out to 1-7.
View attachment 208804 View attachment 208803

MXWing, I'm curious is this your first Tesla with Autopilot, or did you have a Tesla with AP1 before this? Just wondering if your commentary is comparing AP1 to AP2 or whether AP2 is a completely new experience for you.

 

[BerTX]

It's interesting to read other people's AP1 experiences, especially those who don't have confidence in AP1 enough to use it most of the time. I live and commute in Northern California and find that AP1 performs extremely well on freeways virtually 100% of the time. I've only had issues at dusk when the sun is directly in the car's eyes (and mine too, it's not a cakewalk for me to drive in those conditions either), or when the lane markings are severely degraded or gone (such as when the transpo dept is realigning lanes).

When you say tipsy, I imagine the car drifting back and forth between lane markings, is that what you're experiencing? I had a little bit of this when I first got the car, but these days and for a long time now, it's so good that my passengers cannot tell the difference between me driving and the AP1 driving (and not because I usually drive tipsy .

No, it doesn't wander -- that would be drunk, I think. I think the tipsy driver is looking at the lane markers, concentrating on NOT weaving, but not paying attention to events further down the road. Maybe a driver in the pouring rain would be a better analogy, only able to see a short distance ahead and not able to anticipate, just react at the last minute to changes in the road immediately ahead.

 

[ZeroDarkSilver]

No, it doesn't wander -- that would be drunk, I think. I think the tipsy driver is looking at the lane markers, concentrating on NOT weaving, but not paying attention to events further down the road. Maybe a driver in the pouring rain would be a better analogy, only able to see a short distance ahead and not able to anticipate, just react at the last minute to changes in the road immediately ahead.

I see...I guess we have different ways of thinking about Autopilot.

The way I think about it is, I know AP has certain capabilities and limitations, based what sensing hardware and processing power it has built into it. Knowing those limitations (or actually learning them, over the time I've had the car), I let the car do what it's good at, while I focus on things I know it's not good at or can't do. We're like buddies who are driving the car together. Or maybe Autopilot is my RIO or R2-D2. Or maybe it's the other way around and I am the car's R2-D2! Either way, I don't expect AP to let me do *sugar* on my phone or go to sleep. It's helping me drive.

So when you say the car is focusing just on keeping in the lane, and looking at the car ahead and nothing else, to me that's great! Because now I can shift my human attention to higher-order "surveillance" or "situational awareness". I know the car can only see certain types of things, so I look out for all the other things I know that it can't see. With AP on, I find myself free to look further ahead down the road myself, watch other cars for suspicious behavior, and just generally fill in the gaps of things I know AP doesn't understand.

So long story short, when I'm driving with AP on, I'm still working, we're both working. But it's relieving me of low-level tasks like basic accelerator and steering modulation and freeing me up to be a better driver. Interesting to hear about other people who see it differently.

 

[Skalinator]

Posted this in another thread but applicable here too. I have model s though.

So something interesting: I had the update installed New Year's Eve. Took it out for a test drive New Year's Day, couldn't use anything, "camera calibrating" message. I drove max 20 miles New Year's Day. I drove it this morning, and was able to use TACC right away. So it does seem it's not necessarily a time driven in your car or miles driven in your car as far as I can tell.

I tested TACC and autosteer. I had to go out and find traffic on the freeway to test it, it won't work unless you are on the freeway and going under 35 mph. The one day in Southern California traffic is light is today lol, so I was only able to find about a 5 minute backup. But Autosteer worked great, but it wasn't a long test of a difficult freeway (5 freeway).

TACC worked everywhere I tried it. I drove about an hour on and off freeways with it. Over all on the freeway it works great, though it struggles when the radar hits a freeway overpass. It will slow down pretty dramatically for about 2 seconds then it will work itself out and continue on. I let it do this many times, it always recovered I would say It went from 65 down to about 45-50 mph. Not optimal, but I know tesla has talked about this issue and the past and specifically said fleet learning will address that issue. It didn't have that issue over most overpasses I would say, but it did happen 3-4 times.

One thing that worked great was merging onto a different freeway on ramp with a curve. TACC was set to 75, there was a broad curve to this onramp. TACC slowed down to 55-60 to handle the curve then speed back up just like I would have done. Smooth overall.

On the roads, I used it in heavy stop and go traffic, it worked decent most of the time. One time as i was driving next to a bicyclist in the bicycle lane it freaked out and slowed way down then recovered about a second later. The acceleration and breaking can be smoother for sure, but it's not horrible. I got used to it in about 10 minutes.

I think we have to remember Tesla is essentially starting over developing their own image recognition, sensor network etc. I like the idea that it's in house now, not having to depend on mobileeye. But with good comes bad, this means we have to go through all of this "beta" period crap where the software is not 100%. I have had the car about a month and about every two weeks I have recived new updates giving me new features. That's pretty awesome when you think about it. So, things are moving, just be patient.