80 Amp Charing for Cybertruck, Tesla WC Gen 4?

[kpanda17]

The reason the Semi uses 2170s is to maximize range, which are made by Panasonic (same with all 2170s). 4680s are just cheaper, but currently have less performance, less range, and slower charging. I understand that the goal is that the 4680s will eventually be the better, but that appears to be a long ways off considering that even Gen3 would take up a larger footprint for the range they could get with the 2170s. Tesla decided to use the 19650s because of their performance in the MS.

Good debate
Thanks for rhe knowledge

 

[TessP100D]

4680 gen 2

It’s all out there
Dry cell manuf from Maxwell
Hired a dry cell expert
Big savings on manuf costs
10% increase in energy density equaling Samsung 2170
Great news with gen 3 pending

Tesla's GigaTexas reaches production milestone for revolutionary 4680 battery cells

Tesla's GigaTexas has produced its 10 millionth 4680 battery cell. A milestone for the new technology.

thedriven.io

I really hope so. I’m all in if it increases the range.

 

[TessP100D]

The reason the Semi uses 2170s is to maximize range, which are made by Panasonic (same with all 2170s). 4680s are just cheaper, but currently have less performance, less range, and slower charging. I understand that the goal is that the 4680s will eventually be the better, but that appears to be a long ways off considering that even Gen3 would take up a larger footprint for the range they could get with the 2170s. Tesla decided to use the 19650s because of their performance in the MS.

Or could it be that Tesla just hasn’t solved the mystery of the chemistry? No matter what form size they use?

 

[kpanda17]

They just hired and experienced person to get the Nevada build done
they are working to get increased 4680 mass prod up amd running

 

[uscbucsfan]

Or could it be that Tesla just hasn’t solved the mystery of the chemistry? No matter what form size they use?

Elon said as much as the investor call when he said it's really incredibly hard to make batteries.

 

[E90alex]

Tesla is doing a lot of battery direction changes:
CATL M3Ps moving away from LFP
Samsung 2170s also
Panasonic assembling Tesla 4680s
Tesla making 4680s
Hard to understand rhe biggest focus for long term but the following is clear:
Low end short range are M3P and 4680
Long range are 4680
It doesn’t seem 2170s are the main long term focus

Tesla's 2170 vs. 4680 Batteries: What's The Difference?

Tesla uses a variety of different batteries depending on the model. What's the difference between their 2170 vs 4680?

history-computer.com

They might be putting more effort into developing their 4680 cells, but 2170 will remain the biggest volume for the foreseeable future. 4680 cell production is still a small fraction of 2170 production, not enough to support the volume of 3/Y global production anytime soon.

Model 3 still relies on 2170 as does the vast majority of Model Y. They can’t just switch to 4680 without significantly re-engineering the car and retooling the production lines. Same for the 2170 battery production lines at giga Nevada. Austin is only capable of producing a relatively small quantity of Y with structural battery. Not sure if it’s production constrained or battery constrained or both, but they won’t be switching all Y to structural battery anytime soon, especially with CT expected to take up any extra 4680 cells.

And yes there are third parties also making or planning to make 4680 cells, but third party 4680 cells may not be able to achieve the energy density goals they have set for their own 4680 cells, so they can’t just interchangeably swap between suppliers on the fly for the batteries. Case in point Panasonic vs LG Chen 2170.

In theory Model 3 highland could be redesigned to accept a structural battery and/or a structural battery could be made from 2170 cells. But I don’t think we have seen anything that points to that.

Tesla’s hype machine has done a good job of convincing the world they will 4680 all the things just around the corner and it will instantly solve every single problem and limitation plaguing batteries and EVs overnight. The reality is much more boring than that.

 

[kpanda17]

They might be putting more effort into developing their 4680 cells, but 2170 will remain the biggest volume for the foreseeable future. 4680 cell production is still a small fraction of 2170 production, not enough to support the volume of 3/Y global production anytime soon.

Model 3 still relies on 2170 as does the vast majority of Model Y. They can’t just switch to 4680 without significantly re-engineering the car and retooling the production lines. Same for the 2170 battery production lines at giga Nevada. Austin is only capable of producing a relatively small quantity of Y with structural battery. Not sure if it’s production constrained or battery constrained or both, but they won’t be switching all Y to structural battery anytime soon, especially with CT expected to take up any extra 4680 cells.

And yes there are third parties also making or planning to make 4680 cells, but third party 4680 cells may not be able to achieve the energy density goals they have set for their own 4680 cells, so they can’t just interchangeably swap between suppliers on the fly for the batteries. Case in point Panasonic vs LG Chen 2170.

In theory Model 3 highland could be redesigned to accept a structural battery and/or a structural battery could be made from 2170 cells. But I don’t think we have seen anything that points to that.

Tesla’s hype machine has done a good job of convincing the world they will 4680 all the things just around the corner and it will instantly solve every single problem and limitation plaguing batteries and EVs overnight. The reality is much more boring than that.

Good insight thanks

 

[Mark Z]

In regard to the earlier discussion of 80 amp charging at home, in 11 years it was hardly used. Set the level at 32 amps and started the charge about 4 AM. The only time 72 amps was needed: when I forgot to plug in the night before. Now a Supercharger is a mile away, a great stop after a long drive if there is not enough time to charge at home.

 

[kpanda17]

On 11/30/2023 at the CT delivery event, we will find out if 72 amp charging will be a nice to have and also if we get a gen 4 universal WC.

 

[E90alex]

We probably still won’t get any additional information at the delivery event.

Zero specs or pricing information about the Model Y AWD were given at the Giga Texas opening event, even though they “started deliveries” of it that night.

 

[doghousePVD]

Musk has said nobody needs more than 48 A on board. There really aren't any good connectors for above 50 A 240 V. I's expensive and adds weight to put a 72-80 charger in every vehicle.

I think at the Cybertruck launch there will be announced a 80 A DC charger released, hardwired to a 100 A circuit. Perhaps it will have two cables and smarts to charge two vehicles sequentially.

 

[brainhouston]

There really aren't any good connectors for above 50 A 240 V.

Really?.. haha
I think u forgot that DC fast charging (aka up to 250kW) goes thru same connector

I's expensive and adds weight to put a 72-80 charger in every vehicle.

yes this could be the reason or maybe because 60A circuits are easier to install in houses (for 48a max charge)

 

[TessP100D]

In regard to the earlier discussion of 80 amp charging at home, in 11 years it was hardly used. Set the level at 32 amps and started the charge about 4 AM. The only time 72 amps was needed: when I forgot to plug in the night before. Now a Supercharger is a mile away, a great stop after a long drive if there is not enough time to charge at home.

I have been using my 80 amp charger since 2017. Nothing beats it. And… it comes with an long cord too. Double bonus.

 

[TessP100D]

Musk has said nobody needs more than 48 A on board. There really aren't any good connectors for above 50 A 240 V. I's expensive and adds weight to put a 72-80 charger in every vehicle.

I think at the Cybertruck launch there will be announced a 80 A DC charger released, hardwired to a 100 A circuit. Perhaps it will have two cables and smarts to charge two vehicles sequentially.

I sincerely hope they announce the status in Nov. I’m building a. House now and need the total connected load now. Need specs.

 

[kpanda17]

I sincerely hope they announce the status in Nov. I’m building a. House now and need the total connected load now. Need specs.

Run 2 gauge copper to the garage with a good sized subpanel
For your main panel go 400 amp, 3 phase
Use this panel brand SPAN as your panel manuf

Once we know the top current potential of the CT, 49 or 80 amp, then just setup the subpanel to WCs

 

[TessP100D]

Run 2 gauge copper to the garage with a good sized subpanel
For your main panel go 400 amp, 3 phase
Use this panel brand SPAN as your panel manuf

Once we know the top current potential of the CT, 49 or 80 amp, then just setup the subpanel to WCs

I have a 400 amp Solar ready panel scheduled. With 2 Tesla circuits but I’m aleady at 358.6 amps. So getting close To max. Really would like Tesla to stop F-ing around and juts announce the specs. Geez. People have lives here

 

[kpanda17]

I have a 400 amp Solar ready panel scheduled. With 2 Tesla circuits but I’m aleady at 358.6 amps. So getting close To max. Really would like Tesla to stop F-ing around and juts announce the specs. Geez. People have lives here

Plan 100/80s for don’t the CT will want more

 

[doghousePVD]

I sincerely hope they announce the status in Nov. I’m building a. House now and need the total connected load now. Need specs.

My guess is the on board charger will still be 48 A (60 A circuit breaker). However I am pretty sure they will release an 80 A DC charger, like what Ford does with the Platinum Lightning. It would require a 100 A breaker. I would definitely install a 100 A breaker so you’ll be ready.

 

[E90alex]

My guess is the on board charger will still be 48 A (60 A circuit breaker). However I am pretty sure they will release an 80 A DC charger, like what Ford does with the Platinum Lightning. It would require a 100 A breaker. I would definitely install a 100 A breaker so you’ll be ready.

Ford Charge Station Pro is an AC charger not a DC charger.

It uses a CCS1 connector because the DC pins are used in a proprietary way for backup power from the truck’s battery. Charging the truck uses AC and just the top J1772 pins of the connector.

 

[ucmndd]

For your main panel go 400 amp, 3 phase

You don’t get to just decide you want 3-phase service in any US residential neighborhood I’ve ever lived in.

Use this panel brand SPAN as your panel manuf

SPAN doesn’t make a 3 phase panel.