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A pack at Supercharger

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Alysashley79, Feb 6, 2016.

  1. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    My car normally has a D pack however back in December it failed left me stranded and thus far I've been told the seal to the main pack broke. My pack is currently Enroute to Fremont for complete disgnosis and then to be fixed.

    I know this has been talked about ad nauseum and without sifting through 100's of pages...my quick question is this...I'm taking a road trip with this **** wonderful pack for the first time next week and I need to know how much longer it's going to take me to charge. I will need to go from around 20% back up to around 90% anyone with an A pack have any slight idea?
     
  2. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    The gist of your question is how much longer it will take an A pack to go from 20% to 90% versus a D pack, right?

    About 5-10 minutes longer I believe. You'll only see the difference in the period of time when the Supercharger is putting out >90 kW. I don't recall the actual curve but above 20% SOC, it's not very long.
     
  3. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    90 kW crossover point is at ~40% SOC on D packs, or right around 110ish miles.

    It's about 5-10 minutes on average. Longer if you're arriving with near-zero miles.
     
  4. Vince Cobelo

    Vince Cobelo Member

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    Ok...educate me or point me to where I can understand this A pack D pack stuff.

    (If you can keep it simple for stupid.)
     
  5. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Single-motor 85 kWh packs had an initial revision of the original part number, called "rev A", that was limited to 90 kW charging. Only the first few thousand or so VINs had this battery pack, although small numbers do appear later (6000's and 9000's VINs). This 90 kW limitation means if they arrive at a SC with only a handful of miles, they charge a bit slower than newer packs.

    While it's called an "A" battery pack, the "A pack" term used on this forum only applies to Tesla part numbers 1014114 (new, single motor 85 kWh pack) and 1025273 (refurb, single motor 85 kWh pack). Tesla part numbers are in the format XXXXXXX-YY-Z, where X is the P/N and Z is the revision.

    If you have a 2014 or later model, a dual-motor vehicle, or a 70/90 kWh pack, this doesn't apply to you.
     
  6. Vince Cobelo

    Vince Cobelo Member

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    Great explanation. Thank you.
     
  7. Electric Joe

    Electric Joe Member

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    Has anyone demonstrated/proven that replacing an "A" pack with a later revision allows the car to supercharge at the higher rate? In other words, is it really true that simply replacing the "A" pack in an older Model S with, say, a "D", will allow the higher wattage supercharger rate, or are there other factors (fuses, cables, etc.) that prevent the early production cars from supercharging at the full 135kw?
     
  8. Zextraterrestrial

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    yes. my car charges at 124kW w/ a swapped pack. Originally had an A which was replaced with a D
     
  9. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Yes. My car has a "D" pack and has charged at 123 kW.

    It should also be noted that no car will charge at the "full" 135 kW. That's the rating of the cabinet, but the fastest charging seen so far is just below 125 kW.
     
  10. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    To anyone that still had an A pack on their car my sincerest apologies. The struggle is real. I was at Ellensburg supercharger last night where I've supercharged minimum 15 times since it opened and I've always pulled between 115kw and 130kw depending on my soc upon arrival. It's usually pretty low considering where I'm leaving from. I arrived last night with 5%soc and never got above 74kw it took me an hour and 10 minutes to get up to 70%soc so I could make it home. With my D pack this same charging would average me around 30-35 minutes tops. (Extremely disappointed)

    really looking forward to getting my pack back.
     
  11. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #11 FlasherZ, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
    There has been no documentation of any car pulling anything more than 124 kW - and that's in perfect conditions, single digits. 120 kW is only carried to about 20%, then progresses down from there, crossing the 90 kW threshold at about 42% SOC.

    Here's the curve from a D pack at various SOC's:

    15% - 122.9 kW
    20% - 122.9 kW
    25% - 118.9 kW
    30% - 114.9 kW
    35% - 104.7 kW
    40% - 97.4 kW
    45% - 86.8 kW
    50% - 78.9 kW
    55% - 71.2 kW
    60% - 61.7 kW

    From a time perspective, if everything is fully functional, it's simply impossible to say that it takes an extra 35 minutes to cover the difference between the two packs. Perhaps there was something wrong with the supercharger and it was limited too?

    I only have one supercharging curve from my old "A" pack. I arrived at the SC with 20% SOC and plugged in. The car received 90 kW for only 13 minutes before it began the taper curve (42%). From 20% to 70% took 28 minutes total, so 15 minutes spent from 42% threshold to 70%. The final 70-100% took another 45 minutes, for a total of 1 hour, 13 minutes from 20%-100% on an A pack.

    Meanwhile, my D-pack curve looks like this: plug in at 15% SOC. Time until 90 kW threshold reached (42%): 11 minutes. From the 90 kW threshold to 70%, 15 minutes. I charged only until about 97% on that run, and it took 1 hour, 10 minutes total from 15% to 97% on a D pack.

    As you can see, the 42%-70% still remains the same. On an A pack, it took 13 minutes from 20% SOC to 42% SOC. On a D pack, it took 11 minutes from 15% SOC to 42% SOC.

    The D pack probably could have done the 20% to 42% in 9 minutes or so. Savings would have been 4 minutes.

    If you took an extra 35 minutes, there was something else wrong (cold-soaked battery, bad supercharger, etc.)
     
  12. EMdoc12

    EMdoc12 Member

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    I have an A pack on my CPO. I wouldn't say I've been inconvenienced by the added time. That being said I'd love to be able to charge a bit faster.
     
  13. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #13 ChadS, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
    Do you remember the temperature at Ellensburg last night? I wonder if environmental conditions caused as much of the slowdown as the pack.

    I have done about 20k miles of Supercharging road trips on my A pack, and very often see 90kW when I first plug in. The only time it ever takes over an hour is when I shoot for 100%. It is obviously slower at first when limited to 90kw, but it typically doesn't take long until you get to where any pack is limited to under 90kW.
     
  14. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    With the taper, and often sharing supercharger pedestals (and thus power), and then temperature issues, often there is no difference between an A pack and a D pack, and when there is a difference, it is a matter of five minutes or so. Not something to worry about.
     
  15. Zextraterrestrial

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    #15 Zextraterrestrial, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
    minutes on the X-axis - from Grant's Pass
    pretty sure this was before they were running the 135kW SC's. I forget if GP is >120kW now or not
    A vs B (not a 'D' like I said upthread)
    (and there was quite a bit of change in SOC vs rated miles between the two due to firmware)
    42% looks right about where both drop below 90kW
    ch1.jpg
     
  16. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    My A pack always tapered below 40%. My D pack crosses 90 kW quite consistently around 43-45%. It largely evens out above 50%. I did perceive a noticeable difference after the pack swap.
     
  17. DoubleDownOn9

    DoubleDownOn9 Member

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    I have an A pack and usually only charge up to 80% for SC visits. I haven't noticed any frustratingly long SC visits either. I usually charge 30-45 minutes. I don't think it makes as much difference as we think it does. Pack is holding up extremely well too. On warm days I still show 262 miles range.
     
  18. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    Hi Chad it was 31 degrees on arrival and 29 degrees when we left.
     
  19. Odenator

    Odenator P2607

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    How in the name of Jebus do you get 130 kW even if your battery shows zero?
     

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