A sincere effort from a hater to adapt to living in a world with Teslas

[bo3bdar]

Interesting discussion. I give Doc full credit for starting a conversation that I'm sure was very difficult for him to write.

I'm a car guy too, but I'm all about the performance, not how it's done. If a hydrogen car is better, I'll drive that. If a diesel happened to be better I'd drive that. I don't ignore eco issues, so if it's a tossup, I'll definitely lean toward sustainable results. I like my Model 3 because it's fast as hell and corners nearly as good as my Boxster, which I just sold. Having a full 'tank' every single time I leave the house is a killer feature. Not polluting and leaving the world better than when I arrived is a perk. But I'm not an eco head with a full on Smug. (see Southpark). I'm just a genuine conservative that thinks we should, you know, conserve.


One thing I'd add to this conversation is that it's important to filter your news intake to reliable and quality sources. The web/internet world is built around click-bait. The more extreme it is, the better for their profits. Cable news is now polluted with click-bait as well. The more extreme they are, the more money they make.

I would strongly encourage Doc, and everyone actually, to filter your news to stuff that is not just deliberately designed to piss you off. You don't have to opt out of news completely, but it's worth the time to avoid polluting your mind with click-bait poison.

For conservatives in general, your best choice is the WSJ. Their news section is even-handed, and they don't make money by deliberately trying to make everyone angry. With the notable exception of their editorial page. It leans toward click-bait in my opinion. The National Review can also be worth your time. If you are a techie- Ars Technica has remarkably solid coverage.

Anything that is web based is total trash. Facebook, Twitter, stuff like Vice, emails from your pals, It's all click-bait. Ignore it. I don't watch TV, so I don't know any channels that would not be rubbish. On the internet, I use guilty-until-proven-innocent. If it came from the web, it's a lie, until I get corroborating info.

It's actually easy to tell though- are they trying to make you mad? It's click-bait.

 

[CyberGus]

Anything that is web based is total trash.

Yes, it's all hot garbage! Except this forum. This forum is alright lol

 

[cucubits]

I was THAT GUY who will give rude gestures to every Tesla driver, or do things to their cars while parked. I was THAT GUY who would road rage against any Tesla I had the opportunity.

Lest you think me a Luddite, I'll inform you that I am a Rutgers, Yale, and Stanford trained physician, and a commercial pilot, amongst other accomplishments that verify I am highly intelligent and highly educated.

To be completely honest, these two statements are polar opposite and they just can't go together. Going to fancy schools and knowing which knobs to turn in an airplane does not equal to an actual education. I get horrified associating the first statement with someone who is actually supposed to help people and/or is reponsible with their lives.

My advice, as already said, if you really actually want to improve - get professional help. Something is wrong there...

 

[nwdiver]

Good afternoon everyone.

This message has taken me a long time to commit to.

I am a hater. I do not wish to remain a hater. I'm tired of lost sleep, aggravation, blood pressure spikes and rage every time I see a Tesla. I sincerely want to get to know about Tesla owners and their motivation to drive Teslas and grow past this miserable anti-Tesla obsession that has drained me of so much energy over the years. In return, some of you may find it useful or interesting to learn about why Teslas are so hated by petrolheads such as myself.

It occurs to me we are all people, on both sides of the equation.

I'll try to keep it brief but a little about myself.

I'm a dyed in the wool car guy my whole life. I'm 57 (as of yesterday, happy birthday to me ;-). I've restored classics, I've raced motorcycles (amateur), and have owned maybe 15 cars and about 50 motorcycles over the years. I currently have a 500HP twin turbo S Class Mercedes, a restored older Ford pickup, A Ducati, a Moto Guzzi, a Gold Wing, and a Harley. I am also a private pilot and own my own plane.

So you can see I get a lot of my life's joy from internal combustion, and it is a way of life I don't want ripped out of my hands.

I successfully shorted Tesla when it was profitable to do so. I became a shareowner (substantial) when it became profitable to do so.

I was THAT GUY who will give rude gestures to every Tesla driver, or do things to their cars while parked. I was THAT GUY who would road rage against any Tesla I had the opportunity. I was THAT GUY who would convey any hateful negative (truthful however) comment against Tesla any chance I had in conversation in person of in a forum.

Lest you think me a Luddite, I'll inform you that I am a Rutgers, Yale, and Stanford trained physician, and a commercial pilot, amongst other accomplishments that verify I am highly intelligent and highly educated.

So why all the hate?

As alluded to above I feel as if electric car people and legislation is trying to take away my way of life. I enjoy ICE vehicles an lifestyle and I am heavily invested it them. I resent elected officials taking a lot of my tax money and using it to help people buy expensive vehicles that I am subsidizing. I find Elon distasteful as an individual, and antithetical to the lifestyle of a servant leader that I value as a Christian. Also to be frank, I've found Tesla owners to be eco-snobs (I coined a new term perhaps) and in general I don't like liberals or fringe eco-maniacs.

With that said I'm sure that there are many good people who own Teslas, and than most of them don't buy Teslas simply to anger people like myself, but rather to drive themselves and their families from place to place. I REALLY want to grow past this problem. It's hurting me, not helping you, and as a Christian I cannot harbor this hate.

I feel as if I aired this and read some responses it would help me grow. This is my confession.

Thanks in advance for your patience,

Bill

As Jay Leno has said. 'It's not the car that's the problem it's the fuel'. My blood pressure spikes when I think of how ICE is increasing atmospheric CO2 and makes all the terrible extremes we've been experiencing more extreme. Who's joy should take precedence? My joy at not being burned or suffocated by an AGW enhanced wildfire or your joy with an ICE?

 

[CyberGus]

To be completely honest, these two statements are polar opposite and they just can't go together.

Thank you for your honesty. You're also completely wrong. There is no correlation between level of education and occurrence of mental illnesses or social disorders; if anything, higher education predicts higher rates of treatment.

Going to fancy schools ... does not equal to an actual education.

Your expert grammar really drives the point home. Earning a degree from an accredited school is the exact definition of "education".


That said, the OP stated he was aware of this fault and came here to try and improve it, for which he should be lauded. Seeking professional help is a personal choice, and offering "you need help" as advice can often seem reductive.

 

[GeorgeC1]

Good afternoon everyone.

This message has taken me a long time to commit to.

I am a hater. I do not wish to remain a hater. I'm tired of lost sleep, aggravation, blood pressure spikes and rage every time I see a Tesla. I sincerely want to get to know about Tesla owners and their motivation to drive Teslas and grow past this miserable anti-Tesla obsession that has drained me of so much energy over the years. In return, some of you may find it useful or interesting to learn about why Teslas are so hated by petrolheads such as myself.

It occurs to me we are all people, on both sides of the equation.

I'll try to keep it brief but a little about myself.

I'm a dyed in the wool car guy my whole life. I'm 57 (as of yesterday, happy birthday to me ;-). I've restored classics, I've raced motorcycles (amateur), and have owned maybe 15 cars and about 50 motorcycles over the years. I currently have a 500HP twin turbo S Class Mercedes, a restored older Ford pickup, A Ducati, a Moto Guzzi, a Gold Wing, and a Harley. I am also a private pilot and own my own plane.

So you can see I get a lot of my life's joy from internal combustion, and it is a way of life I don't want ripped out of my hands.

I successfully shorted Tesla when it was profitable to do so. I became a shareowner (substantial) when it became profitable to do so.

I was THAT GUY who will give rude gestures to every Tesla driver, or do things to their cars while parked. I was THAT GUY who would road rage against any Tesla I had the opportunity. I was THAT GUY who would convey any hateful negative (truthful however) comment against Tesla any chance I had in conversation in person of in a forum.

Lest you think me a Luddite, I'll inform you that I am a Rutgers, Yale, and Stanford trained physician, and a commercial pilot, amongst other accomplishments that verify I am highly intelligent and highly educated.

So why all the hate?

As alluded to above I feel as if electric car people and legislation is trying to take away my way of life. I enjoy ICE vehicles an lifestyle and I am heavily invested it them. I resent elected officials taking a lot of my tax money and using it to help people buy expensive vehicles that I am subsidizing. I find Elon distasteful as an individual, and antithetical to the lifestyle of a servant leader that I value as a Christian. Also to be frank, I've found Tesla owners to be eco-snobs (I coined a new term perhaps) and in general I don't like liberals or fringe eco-maniacs.

With that said I'm sure that there are many good people who own Teslas, and than most of them don't buy Teslas simply to anger people like myself, but rather to drive themselves and their families from place to place. I REALLY want to grow past this problem. It's hurting me, not helping you, and as a Christian I cannot harbor this hate.

I feel as if I aired this and read some responses it would help me grow. This is my confession.

Thanks in advance for your patience,

Bill

I find it strange that as a Christian you admit to and advocate so many anti Christian actions. Hopefully one of these days when you vandalize a parked Tesla the owner will get a nice video of you in action And you can explain to the judge what a good Christian your are! After sentencing maybe you can show even more good Christian road rage on the way home.

 

[andy92782]

I wonder if the OP ever actually sampled/test drove a Tesla... or any other EV for that matter. Perhaps a Taycan. Nothing changes minds/perceptions faster than putting butts in seats.

 

[jjgg]

I admire the courage that FastDoc is willing to open up and have a discussion like this.

Doc, cars powered by ICE are mostly practical tools to other people while you have a hobby and passion on them. I think you can try to treat hobby/passion and practical tools differently. They are two scenarios with different priorities and requirements. ICE being obsolete as a practical tool will have some impact on your hobby, but it will probably just require you to have a bit more dedication to your hobby than taking it away.

Look at the steam locomotives. No commercial transporters run them today. But there are a lot of passionate people maintaining vintage steam engines as a hobby. These steam hobbyists don't show hates on modern trains. And the general public don't accuse these steam engines for burning dirty coal either. People are appreciating the beautiful machinery and history preserved in these steam engines, and the dedication made by those hobbyists.

Your passion to ICE cars can be in the same situation. Don't develop hate, develop appreciation!

 

[Catbiscuits]

I don’t know if OP is still around, but let me give another example. George W. Bush created a law phasing out incandescent light bulbs. I was so angry. I hated compact fluorescents. The light spectrum made me depressed and the thought of donning a hazmat suit or hiring a professional clean up crew every time one broke seemed preposterous. Plus they cost a lot and didn’t last. But he was right. His act spurred massive innovation in the lighting sector. By the time that I was redoing my basement in 2014, I chose to use LED bulbs in track lighting cans. I have maybe 15 of them in one room to create even light. This is on a circuit that also has my sump pump, my networking gear, a dehumidifier, a surround sound stereo and projector and other essential things one has in a base. If those 15 lights had been 100 watt incandescent bulbs, I would have needed a separate circuit. But instead they are about 15W each, so it’s a tiny fraction of what it would have been. And more recently, I bought a bunch of LIFX bulbs that connect to my wifi network and allow me to change their colors effortlessly. Capitalism has ALWAYS relied on some kind of government subsidy and encouragement, be it paving the roads, building lighthouses on rocky shoals, building the Internet, sending GPS satellites into space or bailing out big auto. And if we don’t encourage our domestic automakers to go electric, China will. So we are all better off for the EV revolution of the last few years. It’s going to continue and it will make our lives better.

 

[FastDoc]

First off, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, and your transparency. Also, kudos to everyone in this thread for being so civil. Really nice to see that people can disagree respectfully for a change!

I bought my Tesla (just got it yesterday actually) not because I'm all about the environment (don't get me wrong, I am, but I'm not some fanatic about it). Let's just say I recycle and am happy to do it. One of my biggest factors (aside from loving the car) was skipping out on gas and all of the other costs of ownership inherent in ICE cars.

I'm sitting here today with a printout on my desk from my service center that services my Acura. It's showing a Knock sensor error from time-to-time. The car only has 27K miles on it, and this shouldn't be happening, but it is. Cost to repair? Over $1,000. My point being that the complexity of ICE cars just from an engineering standpoint is so much greater than EVs - so many more opportunities for failure. I don't have real numbers on part counts of ICE cars vs. EVs, but I'm fairly confident that there is sizable difference. It comes down to total cost of ownership.

I get that you love your cars, and you probably really enjoy working on them and keeping them in tip-top shape. No one's going to take that joy away from you.

Regarding your animosity towards tax credits for EVs. I think that's a specious argument when you compare the billions that we give to the oil and gas industry (which are not hurting for profits in any way). I'll gladly give up my pittance of a tax credit if I could also no longer subsidize the oil and gas industry. But we all know that's not going to happen.

You've reached out. That's a great step and very admirable. Thank you for that. Maybe take it a step further. Get to know the "dark-side". Maybe park at a Supercharger station (though not in one of the stalls) and chat up some of us. We really don't bite!

And I do have to point out one thing you said. It made me a little sad that you admitted you would do things to parked Teslas. I'm sure you've changed your ways, but I've seen some videos (recorded on the Tesla cameras) where people try to mess with Teslas. For no good reason at all. I'm sure you would be extremely upset if some jerk messed with your Benz! I guess I'll appeal to your Christian values - Tesla owners are your neighbors too. Love them! We'll all be better for it.

Thanks for the opportunity for us all to share our thoughts.

I appreciate your kindness and your post. It does help he to get to know Tesla people at least virtually. It's been months since my post and my anti-Tesla emotions remain but much less intrusive and my outward negative behavior has ceased since reading this thread.

Seeing Teslas is an everyday occurrence at this point, and tilting at windmills is killing me and helps no one. I live in a wealthy area of a liberal state and I can see 1-5 Teslas every day.

I am also planning to more back home to California. I was looking at acreage in SLO County and everyone and their cat was in a Tesla. If I can't 100% shake this by the time I move I'd self destruct.

I'm getting better, but still have a ways to go. I'm working on it.

 

[FastDoc]

Interesting discussion. I give Doc full credit for starting a conversation that I'm sure was very difficult for him to write.

I'm a car guy too, but I'm all about the performance, not how it's done. If a hydrogen car is better, I'll drive that. If a diesel happened to be better I'd drive that. I don't ignore eco issues, so if it's a tossup, I'll definitely lean toward sustainable results. I like my Model 3 because it's fast as hell and corners nearly as good as my Boxster, which I just sold. Having a full 'tank' every single time I leave the house is a killer feature. Not polluting and leaving the world better than when I arrived is a perk. But I'm not an eco head with a full on Smug. (see Southpark). I'm just a genuine conservative that thinks we should, you know, conserve.


One thing I'd add to this conversation is that it's important to filter your news intake to reliable and quality sources. The web/internet world is built around click-bait. The more extreme it is, the better for their profits. Cable news is now polluted with click-bait as well. The more extreme they are, the more money they make.

I would strongly encourage Doc, and everyone actually, to filter your news to stuff that is not just deliberately designed to piss you off. You don't have to opt out of news completely, but it's worth the time to avoid polluting your mind with click-bait poison.

For conservatives in general, your best choice is the WSJ. Their news section is even-handed, and they don't make money by deliberately trying to make everyone angry. With the notable exception of their editorial page. It leans toward click-bait in my opinion. The National Review can also be worth your time. If you are a techie- Ars Technica has remarkably solid coverage.

Anything that is web based is total trash. Facebook, Twitter, stuff like Vice, emails from your pals, It's all click-bait. Ignore it. I don't watch TV, so I don't know any channels that would not be rubbish. On the internet, I use guilty-until-proven-innocent. If it came from the web, it's a lie, until I get corroborating info.

It's actually easy to tell though- are they trying to make you mad? It's click-bait.

Valid point. Most car enthusiast sites are vehemently anti-Tesla. I have occasionally cut myself off, may do it again. Only feeds the dark side. Also have to consider confirmation bias.

 

[FastDoc]

To be completely honest, these two statements are polar opposite and they just can't go together. Going to fancy schools and knowing which knobs to turn in an airplane does not equal to an actual education. I get horrified associating the first statement with someone who is actually supposed to help people and/or is reponsible with their lives.

My advice, as already said, if you really actually want to improve - get professional help. Something is wrong there...

Cucubits,

You post has been helpful to remind me of the diversity in any given subgroup. This thread has shown me that there are many kind people, generous thinkers, and helpful souls that own Teslas. And then there is you.

 

[FastDoc]

Thank you for your honesty. You're also completely wrong. There is no correlation between level of education and occurrence of mental illnesses or social disorders; if anything, higher education predicts higher rates of treatment.



Your expert grammar really drives the point home. Earning a degree from an accredited school is the exact definition of "education".


That said, the OP stated he was aware of this fault and came here to try and improve it, for which he should be lauded. Seeking professional help is a personal choice, and offering "you need help" as advice can often seem reductive.

Thanks Gus. I owe you one

 

[FastDoc]

I find it strange that as a Christian you admit to and advocate so many anti Christian actions. Hopefully one of these days when you vandalize a parked Tesla the owner will get a nice video of you in action And you can explain to the judge what a good Christian your are! After sentencing maybe you can show even more good

I wonder if the OP ever actually sampled/test drove a Tesla... or any other EV for that matter. Perhaps a Taycan. Nothing changes minds/perceptions faster than putting butts in seats.

I tested a Model S and a Model 3 Performance. I liked the S OK but thought that they were each very expensive for what they offered. I would consider a Taycan, a Mercedes EQS, a E-Ton or an iPace.

 

[FastDoc]

I wonder if the OP ever actually sampled/test drove a Tesla... or any other EV for that matter. Perhaps a Taycan. Nothing changes minds/perceptions faster than putting butts in seats.

I tested a Model S and a Model 3 Performance. I liked them OK, preferred the S, but thought that they were too expensive for what they offered (to me).

I would consider a Taycan or EQS or e-Tron.

 

[FastDoc]

I don’t know if OP is still around, but let me give another example. George W. Bush created a law phasing out incandescent light bulbs. I was so angry. I hated compact fluorescents. The light spectrum made me depressed and the thought of donning a hazmat suit or hiring a professional clean up crew every time one broke seemed preposterous. Plus they cost a lot and didn’t last. But he was right. His act spurred massive innovation in the lighting sector. By the time that I was redoing my basement in 2014, I chose to use LED bulbs in track lighting cans. I have maybe 15 of them in one room to create even light. This is on a circuit that also has my sump pump, my networking gear, a dehumidifier, a surround sound stereo and projector and other essential things one has in a base. If those 15 lights had been 100 watt incandescent bulbs, I would have needed a separate circuit. But instead they are about 15W each, so it’s a tiny fraction of what it would have been. And more recently, I bought a bunch of LIFX bulbs that connect to my wifi network and allow me to change their colors effortlessly. Capitalism has ALWAYS relied on some kind of government subsidy and encouragement, be it paving the roads, building lighthouses on rocky shoals, building the Internet, sending GPS satellites into space or bailing out big auto. And if we don’t encourage our domestic automakers to go electric, China will. So we are all better off for the EV revolution of the last few years. It’s going to continue and it will make our lives better.

Very intelligent angle of looking at this I had not considered.

My next car will probably be an EV but I'm savoring my big V8 as long as I can.

I think my S Class will be good for about another 10 years. At that point there will likely be many good choices.

I'd like to stick with Mercedes Benz but would consider Porsche, BMW or Audi.

Have a great day Cat.

 

[queenamydala]

I appreciate your kindness and your post. It does help he to get to know Tesla people at least virtually. It's been months since my post and my anti-Tesla emotions remain but much less intrusive and my outward negative behavior has ceased since reading this thread.

Seeing Teslas is an everyday occurrence at this point, and tilting at windmills is killing me and helps no one. I live in a wealthy area of a liberal state and I can see 1-5 Teslas every day.

I am also planning to more back home to California. I was looking at acreage in SLO County and everyone and their cat was in a Tesla. If I can't 100% shake this by the time I move I'd self destruct.

I'm getting better, but still have a ways to go. I'm working on it.

Oh, if you're moving to SLO, we'll convert you for sure. I'm up in Napa, and Tesla's are everywhere (as in all of CA.).

Actually was thinking about a weekend trip to Cambria at some point. I'll be either in a White or Midnight Silver Metallic Model 3 (have both). Look out for me, we can chat.

 

[FastDoc]

It would be a pleasure. We could debate while sampling who has better wine, Napa or the central coast

 

[CyberGus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445460544555610121

 

[PianoAl]

I was THAT GUY who will ... do things to their cars while parked.

Can you be more specific?