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A yoke or a joke?

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Try the yolk for a month then see if you still hate it.
Didn't need a month to figure out that I hate it. Drove it for 20-30 minutes and figured it out.

I know Elon is so much against any type of clutter and that's fine. But, it's very easy to seamlessly integrate a few buttons, even if they are digital touch buttons rather than physical buttons for simple one-touch access to all of the daily use items. For me, I hated the Model 3 and having to do multiple visual steps to get to what I needed. Things that in almost every other car, are a simple single touch away.

I could have totally gotten on board if Elon integrated physical buttons on the back side of the steering wheel. Would certainly avoid the many inadvertent touches when turning the wheel and we could still "feel" for them. They wouldn't be visible, but would be easily accessible without having to look for them.

There's simply no reason what so ever that the horn button couldn't remain as part of the air bag. The air bag is still there, make it function safely as every other car does. Just no logical or illogical reason for it to be moved to a tiny touch button on one side of the wheel.

Same thing for the blinkers could have been done for shifting as well. Basically like paddle shifters, but ones that recess into the back of the steering wheel.

You'd then be able to perform all of these functions without having to distract your attention from the road to look for them. Would still be different, but far easier and more practical for people to adapt to. Dare I say, maybe actually better that stalks. They'd still not be visible from any angle inside the car, retaining the very minimalist design, yet would again be items you could instinctively feel for, rather than have to look for.

Better yet, the two spaces where they effectively cut off the top of the steering wheel, could be made to function as blinker controls. You'd instinctively know exactly where to feel for them and could easily activate them without looking. And again, they'd still be hidden from view. Right behind, recessed paddle shifters on the left and right and presto, easy access a driver can feel for, rather than look for.

This doesn't solve the issue of half the steering wheel being gone. People brag that it offers better visibility of the gauge cluster, but what about the fact that it's much wider and now blocks a portion of the main screen? Now, have to lean over to look around the wheel to see the lower left portion of the screen. Is that better than having, very arguably, a little better view of the gauge cluster? NO.

They attempted to solve a problem that didn't exist. They could have created something better. I'm 100% certain that a full steering wheel will be offered at some point in the future. I truly hope they use their heads and create something better when they do.

If they had treated the critical controls as I suggested above, might have been better all around. Then, in the space of the wheel where they put the critical items, they could have made it better by putting the same style of touch pad buttons in there, but for one-touch access to radio, AC, tilt, wipers (already there I know), etc. Then, all of the complaints that MANY have about having to do everything via multiple steps on the main screen would be been gone. The driver friendliness could still have existed, even been improved upon, while accomplishing Elon's same goal of making the interior look like there's nothing there.
 
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There was something I found enjoyable about the yoke, and I think I figured it out. Back before power steering, you'd have an enormous steering wheel with two or three spokes. On the cars I drove it was common to hold one of the spokes for cruising. So now on the yoke, I get some of that nostalgia/muscle memory. Spinning the wheel with one finger pushing down, and the other hand on the rim lifting.

re: wipers- I hope they can de-sensify the button. Something like the high beam haptic might keep from triggering it as often.
Now I really want to see somebody swap in some giant 50's steering wheel into a Plaid... :)
 
Anti yoke people would struggle as motorcyclists. I ride 4-5 different bikes a week.

Some do not have transmissions, some shift without activating the clutch, some do not have wheelie control, some do not have ABS, some do not have pit lane speed limiters (ok not needed for commuting but humorous).

I do not feel the yoke is dangerous - just inconvenient in some instances.
Wrong but nice try.
 
I am not sure how many miles you have driven with your yoke but I have found several advantages. It is wider and allows me to hold it while resting my arm on the door better than my old S or X. Plus I am not sure if the steering sensor is more sensitive but the nag is less with my yoke - maybe I have more pressure on the wheel. I like commuting with the yoke - the car seems more open inside. I prefer my X over my old S because the old S had a more cramped feel.

I am not saying the yoke is better but I do like some things about it. I do not do much city driving and I do not use it for mountain roads - it is awesome for highway autopilot commuting.

Re: Wider
That's a size thing not a yoke vs wheel thing. Additionally you lose other positions including the extremely common single hand on top of the wheel.

Re: Sensor
Again not a yoke vs wheel thing. Could easily be incorporated into a wheel.

So again my point stands, no advantages only disadvantages.
 
All the big boys drive with yokes on the Nurburgring. Tesla just set a new record for production EVs on stock everything(!). They'll swap the brakes, tires, upgrade the aero package, ...etc... and keep going.


Hello to everyone at IAA Berlin. ;) I'm sure the industry folks will be talking about this.
Either he's a very uncomfortable race car driver, not a very good race car driver, or that friggen yoke thing was the issue. Watching the video, have never seen a professional race car driver zig-zagging so much with the steering wheel. Even when going straight, he's still constantly correcting quickly left/right the entire lap. Watch other similar type videos, drivers keep a nice smooth wheel.

Seems like it's not real easy to control that thing at high speeds as he was having constantly correct all the way through. Again, either that, or he's just not a very good driver. In any case, had he kept the wheel straight and driven A LOT smoother than he did, lap would have been significantly faster. Get Randy Probst in there.

This video sure as heck did noting to instill confidence that the Yoke is better. Seems far worse even at high speeds.

Also, this was a test run of a "STOCK" car, so they couldn't change it. Per all the other race run videos that are not official runs for a record, they all switch it out for a full wheel for a reason. That reason isn't because the full wheel is worse!!!

Nope, watching that wheel jig/jag back and forth so violently the whole run, just solidified my own thoughts and experiences with it. I drove one, but not on a race track, but could see where it would be an issue, especially at high speeds.
 
Watch any race on the Nurburgring and ALL the fast cars have yokes because they're racing and want to win. Plaid is one of the fast cars.

Plaid was speed limited to ~163mph and ran stock brakes and tires. It's going to go a lot faster with the usual enhancements.

Either he's a very uncomfortable race car driver, not a very good race car driver, or that friggen yoke thing was the issue. Watching the video, have never seen a professional race car driver zig-zagging so much with the steering wheel. Even when going straight, he's still constantly correcting quickly left/right the entire lap. Watch other similar type videos, drivers keep a nice smooth wheel.

Seems like it's not real easy to control that thing at high speeds as he was having constantly correct all the way through. Again, either that, or he's just not a very good driver. In any case, had he kept the wheel straight and driven A LOT smoother than he did, lap would have been significantly faster. Get Randy Probst in there.

This video sure as heck did noting to instill confidence that the Yoke is better. Seems far worse even at high speeds.

Also, this was a test run of a "STOCK" car, so they couldn't change it. Per all the other race run videos that are not official runs for a record, they all switch it out for a full wheel for a reason. That reason isn't because the full wheel is worse!!!

Nope, watching that wheel jig/jag back and forth so violently the whole run, just solidified my own thoughts and experiences with it. I drove one, but not on a race track, but could see where it would be an issue, especially at high speeds.

All drivers in the top echelons of auto racing have been using yokes for decades. Drivers of that caliber aren't affected by yokes or steering wheels or whatever.

after watching that video, clear to see why the Yoke was yanked out for the Pikes Peak run
 
Either he's a very uncomfortable race car driver, not a very good race car driver, or that friggen yoke thing was the issue. Watching the video, have never seen a professional race car driver zig-zagging so much with the steering wheel. Even when going straight, he's still constantly correcting quickly left/right the entire lap. Watch other similar type videos, drivers keep a nice smooth wheel.

Seems like it's not real easy to control that thing at high speeds as he was having constantly correct all the way through. Again, either that, or he's just not a very good driver. In any case, had he kept the wheel straight and driven A LOT smoother than he did, lap would have been significantly faster. Get Randy Probst in there.

This video sure as heck did noting to instill confidence that the Yoke is better. Seems far worse even at high speeds.

Also, this was a test run of a "STOCK" car, so they couldn't change it. Per all the other race run videos that are not official runs for a record, they all switch it out for a full wheel for a reason. That reason isn't because the full wheel is worse!!!

Nope, watching that wheel jig/jag back and forth so violently the whole run, just solidified my own thoughts and experiences with it. I drove one, but not on a race track, but could see where it would be an issue, especially at high speeds.
To driver's credit, model S is not the most communicative when it comes to steering feel. It looks like he's driving on the edge of the grip, almost by sound. For reference here is Plaid on Slicks on Pike Hill vs model 3 performance vs p90d:
 
I've been watching many of the YouTube videos of the Beta owners driving the 9.xx and on FSD cars. Since there's no way that present vehicles are going to be more than "driver in control" legally - ie., you keep at least one paw on the steering - it's going to be most interesting watching how the owners cope with the yoke making turns, especially when it is indecisive and the steering judders left and right.
One can let a wheel slip between the fingers and be ready to take over in a split second: with the yoke you will either be following every movement or let go and hope to be able to grab the yoke at whatever position it happens to be in. And, as extra fun, because the wheel is "held", a little too much torgue and you will suddenly and unexpectedly be left holding the baby.
Looking forward to those videos!
 
One can let a wheel slip between the fingers and be ready to take over in a split second: with the yoke you will either be following every movement or let go and hope to be able to grab the yoke at whatever position it happens to be in.
EXACTLY! I've probably got calluses on my hands from letting the wheel slide through my hands for however many years I've been driving. Honestly, I hadn't considered that part of it, but the second you said it, the image of me doing just that in my natural driving every single day as second nature, would be gone.
 
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Just for clarification, why Elon Musk shown two times on his Tweet:


This article mention the 7:30.909


This article mention the 7:35.579 time, as in the video:


Note: Any detail about the tires used and air pressure when cold?
 
I've been watching many of the YouTube videos of the Beta owners driving the 9.xx and on FSD cars. Since there's no way that present vehicles are going to be more than "driver in control" legally - ie., you keep at least one paw on the steering - it's going to be most interesting watching how the owners cope with the yoke making turns, especially when it is indecisive and the steering judders left and right.
One can let a wheel slip between the fingers and be ready to take over in a split second: with the yoke you will either be following every movement or let go and hope to be able to grab the yoke at whatever position it happens to be in. And, as extra fun, because the wheel is "held", a little too much torgue and you will suddenly and unexpectedly be left holding the baby.
Looking forward to those videos!
There should be some Yoke + AP videos out there for your amusement, if there aren't any Yoke + FSD Beta ones yet. I'll see if I can find any good ones.

Here's one, only a bit of AP:

While it doesn't have any wild maneuvers, and only a bit of AP it's fun that he says "the yoke has really been a non-issue for any of this at all, the shifting and the lack of any sort of stalks has been no issues at all". Yes, that may seem true, but only because he mostly doesn't actually use the turn signals. 0:25 no, 1:00 yes, 2:25 no, 3:10 no, 3:40 no.
 
To driver's credit, model S is not the most communicative when it comes to steering feel. It looks like he's driving on the edge of the grip, almost by sound. For reference here is Plaid on Slicks on Pike Hill vs model 3 performance vs p90d:
I watched the Tesla Plaid 7:30 run and the Taycan 7:42 run side by side. They mostly run very similar corners so you can see the drivers' hands taking the same corners at mostly the same speed. There's much more control variation on the Model S, almost like it's about to lose it, whereas the Taycan seems in control. I don't know if it's driver, car, tires, or road. Still an impressive ride.


edited: grammar
 
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I watched the Tesla Plaid 7:30 run and the Taycan 7:42 run side by side.
Great videos, thank you for providing the links.

For the Tesla, you should use the new video with the map.

You need to start the Tesla video at 0:08 and the Porsche video at 0:13 when both enter the same left curve.

Max speed at 7:45 for the Tesla is 269 km/h and for the Porsche at 7:22 is 259 km/h.



Michelin 295/30ZR21. 7:30.909 for 20.6 km
 
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There should be some Yoke + AP videos out there for your amusement, if there aren't any Yoke + FSD Beta ones yet. I'll see if I can find any good ones.

Here's one, only a bit of AP:

While it doesn't have any wild maneuvers, and only a bit of AP it's fun that he says "the yoke has really been a non-issue for any of this at all, the shifting and the lack of any sort of stalks has been no issues at all". Yes, that may seem true, but only because he mostly doesn't actually use the turn signals. 0:25 no, 1:00 yes, 2:25 no, 3:10 no, 3:40 no.
Yeah, you’re right, no one signals anymore. Awesome. And just wait until you truly need the horn while the yoke is turned, or need reverse quickly to avoid a fender bender or worse. The new controls are absolute garbage. All the justifications for them them are: 1. Great at the track. (Cool, I have no interest in the track, my S is my family car, driving in the real world is entirely different.) 2. Great view of the FSD visualizations. (Um…I thought we’re supposed to watch the road? Didn’t Elon say FSD could, “…do the worst thing at the worst time?” Or are constant NHTSA crash investigations the goal?) 3. ‘It’s great when I’m not using it!’

The stalkless yoke is certainly coming to Cybertruck and thereafter to the rest of the fleet because Elon says it’s just great for FSD. How is FSD going to help a Cybertruck driver maneuver on fresh dirt while backing material at a job sight? How frustrating will snow plowing be with that stupid on-screen ‘shifter’? Oh right…Cybertruck is a show truck, not intended for real work.

Once stalkless yokes infect the entire fleet, a base model Hyundai Elantra will have superior primary control ergonomics to every Tesla.