A yoke or a joke?

[Skotty]

At 77, I really don't care if I'm cool. That said, I drive with one hand in my lap, palm up and holding the wheel. I imagine I could hold a yoke just as easily.

To my mind, holding a yoke would look a lot more cool, like flying or maneuvering a space ship, no matter where your hand might be on the steering. Interesting to me that I, being old, am amenable to driving with a yoke, while much younger people are already stuck in their ways unable to change.

You must have been a fan of New Coke.

 

[roblab]

All this discussion has made me realize that I should have waited a year to buy a new S. And made me realize how many people get stuck in old habits and ideas, unable to change, kicking and screaming that it's dangerous simply because they cannot adapt.

If evolution is a fact, which it is not, those people would be lost as the world changes.

 

[Dan_Foster]

The problem is signally an opposite turn mid-turn, which in the urban jungle road spaghetti is all too common. Also when signaling to exit a rotary (I know people rarely signal, but we should!)

 

[Wol747]

You mean that you start signaling AFTER you've started your turn?? I've always found that signaling several seconds BEFORE starting my turn is more enlightening to following traffic. I think your argument ignores reality, as several seconds before a turn my thumbs are quite available to tap a signal button, and takes much less time and muscle memory that grabbing for a signal stalk.

You are ignoring the FACT that in most of the world you indicate LEAVING a roundabout - the wheel/yoke is turning one way and BEFORE you get to the exit lane you have to indicate the opposite way.
I lived in the US when the novel concept of roundabouts arrived (<g>) and well remember the absolute panic at the "impossibility" of negotiating them - letters to local papers etc.
Small roundabouts are an excellent way of slowing and merging traffic but they DO rely on everyone making their intentions clear - whether they are continuing round or about to exit - which is why signalling is so important.
And why locating the control when at opposite lock is dangerous with the yoke.

 

[TessP100D]

All this discussion has made me realize that I should have waited a year to buy a new S. And made me realize how many people get stuck in old habits and ideas, unable to change, kicking and screaming that it's dangerous simply because they cannot adapt.

If evolution is a fact, which it is not, those people would be lost as the world changes.

The dam yoke is dangerous and that’s the point.

 

[SigNC]

I was looking at a Model S Monroney sticker and it listed the yolk as an option. This leads me to guess maybe they will offer a wheel at some point? I don't like the yolk BUT IMO the biggest flaw in it is the fact you can't press the center to blow the horn. Come on...

 

[lowtek]

Yep, the horn and the turn signal buttons are my only gripe. The yoke itself took about 3 minutes to get used to and about a week to where I don't even notice it (other than the cool factor).

 

[SigNC]

Yep, the horn and the turn signal buttons are my only gripe. The yoke itself took about 3 minutes to get used to and about a week to where I don't even notice it (other than the cool factor).

interesting discussion mkbhd and doug had on youtube: (~minute 35 if the link doesn't take you there)

I like how the ferrari has a button on each side.

 

[Dan_Foster]

Unfortunately, Elon stated on Twitter, “No.” Besides that, it’s not the yoke that sucks so much: the haptic, stalkless primary controls for ‘shifting’, turn signals, and the idiotic horn ‘button’ placement are the real tragedy. Worse, we may fully expect the entire fleet to be thus damaged soon. Even if stalkless controls receive the scathing criticism due them, Elon has proven incapable of admitting to a mistake.

 

[smogne41]

All this discussion has made me realize that I should have waited a year to buy a new S. And made me realize how many people get stuck in old habits and ideas, unable to change, kicking and screaming that it's dangerous simply because they cannot adapt.

If evolution is a fact, which it is not, those people would be lost as the world changes.

New and different does not mean it is better. Just because something has been used for 120 years also does not mean it is obsolete. We get progress by improving things that need improving, but keeping things that work well. Introducing arbitrary change to well established (and optimized) designs (without demonstrating improvement) is actually highly regressive from a design standpoint, but unfortunately all to common these days. This is pure change for changes sake and is is a f-ing stupid design. I value good design, meaning both attractive and fit-for-purpose. Count this tail-end-of-gen-xer totally out of any yoke+stalkless road car. If that means any future Tesla, so be it.

 

[Dan_Foster]

Besides the wandering turn-signals, the awkward, slow on-screen ‘shifting’, and the unbelievably stupid just-to-be-different horn ‘button’ placement, these new haptic controls are simply unsatisfying—they don’t move, nor click, nor feel like anything at all:

Consider that many of the reasons we love(d) to drive a great stick-shift car (e.g.: BMW M3, Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster) are tactile: the controls fall naturally to hand; they feel nice, substantial; they click into place with a pleasurable mechanical thunk. These rewarding experiences are not accidents—car companies study, refine, and exhaustively test ergonomics to optimize the interaction and enjoyment between human and machine. Tesla’s new haptic controls were obviously not studied in this way, so obviously it’s absurd.

In 2012 Tesla realized that people disliked the first generation Model S door handles because after extending, they didn’t move further when pulled. So Tesla re-engineered them to move a little as you tug. As a result, my 2015 Model S has second generation door handles, and a third came later. Clearly, the feel of door pulls in 2012 meant more to Elon Musk than primary driving controls now. Where is the obsession with perfection in these new controls?

From 2012 to 2021, the Tesla Model S primary controls were derived from the Mercedes S. The fact that these controls feel nice, fall to hand instinctively, and click into place in a reliable, satisfying mechanical way is no accident: Mercedes knows well that no longer shift gears; we no longer start engines with the turn of a key and a well-timed stab at a gas pedal; few cars have a clutch anymore. The remaining tactile experiences are more important than ever—the few that remain contribute enormously to the feel of our expensive machines. Tesla was wrong to throw them away.

 

[2101Guy]

I realize that elon said "no" to optional round wheel, however, Dan Snyder also once famously said "I'll NEVER change the name of this team!".

And well...one can hope that Elon does something to fix the horrid combo of yoke/no stalk/no horn via airbag. The yoke itself not so bad..but that combo? 100% full step backwards. And for zero good reason.

 

[Dan_Foster]

Sadly, I think that hope is vanishingly slim. The new interior has been designed without stalks; the outgoing model cycle lasted nine years with only minor changes to the interior (e.g.: new seats, center console.)

As I’ve written before, an aftermarket company could design a replacement wheel with a centered horn button on the airbag cover, perhaps even more logical turn signals with real buttons, but adding stalks back would likely prove insurmountable/cost prohibitive.

I realize that elon said "no" to optional round wheel, however, Dan Snyder also once famously said "I'll NEVER change the name of this team!".

And well...one can hope that Elon does something to fix the horrid combo of yoke/no stalk/no horn via airbag. The yoke itself not so bad..but that combo? 100% full step backwards. And for zero good reason.

 

[smogne41]

Sadly, I think that hope is vanishingly slim. The new interior has been designed without stalks; the outgoing model cycle lasted nine years with only minor changes to the interior (e.g.: new seats, center console.)

As I’ve written before, an aftermarket company could design a replacement wheel with a centered horn button on the airbag cover, perhaps even more logical turn signals with real buttons, but adding stalks back would likely prove insurmountable/cost prohibitive.

They will fix it when it 1) starts measurably hitting their sales, or 2) they are forced to by a mandated recall. They obviously don't care about customer feedback any longer.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

Besides the wandering turn-signals, the awkward, slow on-screen ‘shifting’, and the unbelievably stupid just-to-be-different horn ‘button’ placement, these new haptic controls are simply unsatisfying—they don’t move, nor click, nor feel like anything at all:

Consider that many of the reasons we love(d) to drive a great stick-shift car (e.g.: BMW M3, Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster) are tactile: the controls fall naturally to hand; they feel nice, substantial; they click into place with a pleasurable mechanical thunk. These rewarding experiences are not accidents—car companies study, refine, and exhaustively test ergonomics to optimize the interaction and enjoyment between human and machine. Tesla’s new haptic controls were obviously not studied in this way, so obviously it’s absurd.

In 2012 Tesla realized that people disliked the first generation Model S door handles because after extending, they didn’t move further when pulled. So Tesla re-engineered them to move a little as you tug. As a result, my 2015 Model S has second generation door handles, and a third came later. Clearly, the feel of door pulls in 2012 meant more to Elon Musk than primary driving controls now. Where is the obsession with perfection in these new controls?

From 2012 to 2021, the Tesla Model S primary controls were derived from the Mercedes S. The fact that these controls feel nice, fall to hand instinctively, and click into place in a reliable, satisfying mechanical way is no accident: Mercedes knows well that no longer shift gears; we no longer start engines with the turn of a key and a well-timed stab at a gas pedal; few cars have a clutch anymore. The remaining tactile experiences are more important than ever—the few that remain contribute enormously to the feel of our expensive machines. Tesla was wrong to throw them away.

Very thoughtful, logical and well stated post!

 

[Jsvette56]

The yoke is fine, easy to get use to. But the touch buttons are a problem. Especially the windshield wiper which I frequently brush against while changing the speed on autopilot. The turn signal is not terrible. But raised push buttons would be best for all.

 

[P100D_Me]

Very interesting reading real world feedback, just the otherday I had to use my horn for a car that was about to change into my lane (without any indication), a quick blast on the middle of the steering wheel saved my butt. But right afterwards I did think to myself, with Elon's stupid touch switch horn I probably would have been hit because in that 'oh crap' moment you have a split second to just bang on the middle of the wheel, hence why car manufacturers have been putting it there since they did away with Klaxon horns.

So between the yoke, no indicator stalk (which in a country full of roundabouts is a problem) and removal of a real horn button (mostly just to be 'edgy' as far as I can tell), I'll be keeping my current Model-S for a while unless other markets Tesla sells into demand they restore normality.

 

[brur]

There was something I found enjoyable about the yoke, and I think I figured it out. Back before power steering, you'd have an enormous steering wheel with two or three spokes. On the cars I drove it was common to hold one of the spokes for cruising. So now on the yoke, I get some of that nostalgia/muscle memory. Spinning the wheel with one finger pushing down, and the other hand on the rim lifting.

re: wipers- I hope they can de-sensify the button. Something like the high beam haptic might keep from triggering it as often.

 

[mkspeedr]

Anti yoke people would struggle as motorcyclists. I ride 4-5 different bikes a week.

Some do not have transmissions, some shift without activating the clutch, some do not have wheelie control, some do not have ABS, some do not have pit lane speed limiters (ok not needed for commuting but humorous).

I do not feel the yoke is dangerous - just inconvenient in some instances.

 

[Wol747]

>>I do not feel the yoke is dangerous - just inconvenient in some instances.<<
(I'm not being sarcastic ..and that's "praise"?
Honestly, the only thing saying it's an improvement I've seen that makes any sense in all these threads is "It's cool".
Sad.