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Adios: Stepping back from TMC and likely Tesla in general

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I love your posts wk057. Some times when I am bored and cant find anything interesting, I just search for your posts. You make me feel like i know nothing and i have learned a lot. Thanks for all your contributions.
 
Firstly, I wanted to recognize the tremendous contributions you have made to the forum. I'm very happy that you will continue to update with your BMS and off-grid projects. I've been informed and entertained a great deal by them in the past and would be very sorry to see you stop posting them. I don't always agree with your other conclusions, but I respect that your position is always well thought out and rationally presented and even where I disagree with some of your conclusions I still find that there is always a great deal I do agree with. I can appreciate that being a minority voice is sometimes unpleasant, especially in a community as passionate as this one and I will be very sorry to see you go.

Secondly, I wanted to express my shock and horror at the actions of those who would harass you. That sort of behavior is completely unacceptable and more than likely criminal. I'm profoundly disturbed to learn that there are those here who would stoop to such actions and wanted to add my voice to those expressing that such behavior is childish and shameful. It is my hope that this stuff is the behavior of a single individual with apparent mental heath issues and not reflective of anyone else here.

I have been troubled by the apparent escalation of the divide between you and those who would more or less unconditionally support Tesla in recent weeks. Your central points that Tesla has failed to deliver on their promise to provide autopilot in a timely fashion, that the P85D does not produce the advertised horsepower and that Tesla has failed completely to offer any explanation or remediation are at this point beyond reasonable dispute. It has become apparent lately that your unhappiness has sometimes produced combustible results when combined with others' enthusiasm. It makes me unhappy to read those threads and I understand your inclination to withdraw from them, even as I wish it weren't so.

I wish people could be a bit more charitable towards each other. Unlike you, I still find the things I love about the car to clearly overcome the things that I'm disappointed by, but I can do so without feeling like that makes you wrong or somehow a bad guy. You would not be the first critical poster to be driven away or turned off by Tesla in the few months I've been here and I think we'd be a better and stronger community if we were more tolerant of critical voices. Best of luck to you in the future, here or elsewhere.

Nicely said. +1.
 
I think the defensiveness springs from a lot of people "talking their book." My guess is that many of these people have money invested in TSLA and they fear that any negative posting will cause the price of the stock to fall. But if that's the case then the stock is overvalued and driven by emotion rather than the fundamentals of the company. However that can be said about the entire stock market at the moment so take that with a grain of salt.

But at the end of the day I don't see this level of fanboi-ism on the Corvette and Jeep forums I frequent.

My participation in this forum ebbs and flows. I sometimes take breaks for weeks at a time. It's good to take breaks (or stop altogether) things aren't making you happy. Spend some time in the real world and reassess.
 
I agree completely with ZachShahan's sentiment. I'm very happy with my P85D, and not as bothered by the horsepower issue as others. Compared to any ICE car, I'm completely satisfied. I don't race on a track, and I my insane demo launches are all very memorable even without Ludicrous.

wk057 - you are incredibly bright, skilled, and articulate individual. I've really enjoyed your contributions to the TMC community. The amount of time, thought, and energy you put into your efforts and posts is outstanding and really, incomparable. You will be missed. Thanks.

p.s. There's no shame in changing your mind and coming back! :)
 
I cannot add anything further that other before me have said so eloquently. Physics was never part of the high school curriculum when I was that age. I switched majors from biology to business in college before I had to take a physics class, so I missed out on learning about "stuff."

Your explanations have been clear and concise about the various electrical components and the physical laws that govern them, so I feel like I finally had the Cliff's Notes version of electrical engineering!

If you ever make it out west, drop me a PM, and I would be glad to take you to lunch--maybe near the upcoming Fresno Supercharger!
 
wk057:

There are often times when someone who makes his first baby steps with a neat idea grow up and grow out of that idea. In this case, you made baby steps with Tesla model S, and are growing up out of Tesla. May you have luck working toward your goals, and the rough and tumble of competitive progress not bare you down. Life is an enjoyable journey, and I wish you the best.


p.s., not directed to wk057: I suspect successful anti-progress demons programmed by the oligarchs went after wk057 since he has had such great success in some of his personal projects (yes, these people really exist, and you see their posts and work all the time). If I were in his shoes, regardless of my opinion of Tesla and/or ownership of its products, I would take that as a compliment. My outward reaction would probably be fake, such as claiming "they won" so they stopped attacking me as much, and I might even take actions to fit that profile. This has nothing to do with my opinion of wk057 or his current actions, and is just a conspiracy-like theory of mine that has nothing to do with wk057's opinions and personal goals.
 
wk057:

There are often times when someone who makes his first baby steps with a neat idea grow up and grow out of that idea. In this case, you made baby steps with Tesla model S, and are growing up out of Tesla. May you have luck working toward your goals, and the rough and tumble of competitive progress not bare you down. Life is an enjoyable journey, and I wish you the best.


p.s., not directed to wk057: I suspect successful anti-progress demons programmed by the oligarchs went after wk057 since he has had such great success in some of his personal projects (yes, these people really exist, and you see their posts and work all the time). If I were in his shoes, regardless of my opinion of Tesla and/or ownership of its products, I would take that as a compliment. My outward reaction would probably be fake, such as claiming "they won" so they stopped attacking me as much, and I might even take actions to fit that profile. This has nothing to do with my opinion of wk057 or his current actions, and is just a conspiracy-like theory of mine that has nothing to do with wk057's opinions and personal goals.

This also refers back to some of the other comments on this thread about the intolerance for anything that isn't 100% positive towards Tesla or certain technologies. I don't know what specifically you mean by who you are thinking of as the "anti-progress demons programmed by the oligarchs" you refer to. I have seen (and to some degree experienced) a lot of push back and some degree of accusation of being with the oil lobby, ICE car lobby, etc. simply because someone has a differing opinion about the feasibility or likelihood that something is going to happen.

I have seen some black and white attitudes among some on this forum. ie if you aren't 100% in agreement with their views about whatever the topic du jour is, you are automatically in lockstep with the opposition. The reality is most topics are much more nuanced with a wide range of opinions ranging across the spectrum.

This isn't just true here. I have seen the world of opinion become much more polarized over the last 20 years. It's very bad in the United States right now, but it seems to be happening around the world too. It may have something to do with the growth of niche media sources that have sprung up over that time period. Some people spend their entire media lives within a narrow spectrum of ideas that agree with theirs and they do the bulk of their communication with people who agree with them.

When they encounter someone who has a differing opinion, their reaction tends to be very extreme and vehement. They are backed by all the people who reinforced their beliefs within the niche culture where they spend most of their time. It encourages people to believe they are 100% right and any other ideas are not just wrong, but evil.

As with everything, there are degrees to this phenomenon. I'm sure some of you are thinking of some extreme cases of this that are hard to ignore, but it happens all over the place, including here. I'm not saying the phenomenon is as bad here as in some other arenas I could mention (but won't), but it does exist here to some degree.

I don't know who attacked wk057, nor can I speculate about the person (or persons) motives. IMO it is a case of cyber bullying and is flat out wrong. I have never seen anything he posted that was all that controversial.

About the closest he came was a bit of push back on the power output from the P85D motors. As someone who is not a sports car guy, it's sort of a tempest in a tea pot thing to me, but I guess it's a burning drama to some who do want the most powerful car around. Maybe that's what set someone off? I have no idea.

In any case, there is a lot of room in this world for differing opinions. In most cases just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make that big a difference in what happens in the real world. Attacking people for having differing opinions tends to make people dig in their heels and entrench their opinions, whether reasonable or not, and stops the cross pollination of ideas which might lead to both sides growing in their knowledge and wisdom.
 
As someone who is critical about any product he thoroughly enjoys I'm sad to see things come to this.

I fail to see how fanboism ever helps a manufacture make better products. Instead it creates a culture of "Company X" can do no wrong, and then they start doing everything wrong because there isn't any balance. There isn't anyone there to speak up when everything goes downhill.

In the movie Rush one of my favorite quotes is "You can't call a Ferrari a $hitbox" because it reminds of me of how a great company can make a terrible car largely due to arrogance of the owners.

Tesla is going to make mistakes plain and simple. They're new to making cars relatively speaking, and they're doing a lot of things at once.
The way they handled Auto Pilot was probably a mistake. It's debatable, but it's not a debate that deserves anyone getting harassed over. It should be a fun debate because no car company has ever done (to my knowledge) what Tesla did. No one will really know the answer to whether it really was a mistake until it's release/refined. I'm cynical in my feeling that it won't work.

In my own personal experience with the 70D I think it's both the best car I've ever bought, and one of the worst in certain ways. It's hilarious like watching the headlight system try to figure out whether it's night, day or raining out. To someone behind me it's like I've completely lost my marbels with how much it turns the lights on and off. I also love poking fun at the ineptness of the blindspot monitoring.

I don't fear being critical because I don't think they'll make the same mistakes. I have no doubt that every little squabble I have with the car some engineer at Tesla already knows about and has it thoroughly documented from the hundreds before me with the same complaint.

It's also worth noting that with the P90DL that they quote the 0-60 from a standstill which leads me to believe they learned their lesson from the P85D. Or at least they're starting to.
 
wk047, I want you to know that your contributions to TMC have been among the highlights of my membership here. You have been very generous with stories, projects, and other info that you have shared. I look forward to your contributions elsewhere on the 'net, and continued contributions here on TMC in whatever form and quantity. Thank you again for your generosity.
 
Tesla is going to make mistakes plain and simple. They're new to making cars relatively speaking, and they're doing a lot of things at once.
The way they handled Auto Pilot was probably a mistake. It's debatable, but it's not a debate that deserves anyone getting harassed over. It should be a fun debate because no car company has ever done (to my knowledge) what Tesla did. No one will really know the answer to whether it really was a mistake until it's release/refined. I'm cynical in my feeling that it won't work.

In my own personal experience with the 70D I think it's both the best car I've ever bought, and one of the worst in certain ways. It's hilarious like watching the headlight system try to figure out whether it's night, day or raining out. To someone behind me it's like I've completely lost my marbels with how much it turns the lights on and off. I also love poking fun at the ineptness of the blindspot monitoring.

I don't fear being critical because I don't think they'll make the same mistakes. I have no doubt that every little squabble I have with the car some engineer at Tesla already knows about and has it thoroughly documented from the hundreds before me with the same complaint.

It's also worth noting that with the P90DL that they quote the 0-60 from a standstill which leads me to believe they learned their lesson from the P85D. Or at least they're starting to.

Every car company fudges its numbers to look better. Most of the time they test under ideal conditions to get the best results. The most frequently fudged numbers are the MPG ratings. Tesla is guilty of this too.

Tesla has also had some technical problems. As you point out, they are new at this and what is amazing is they got it as right as they did from the start. There are a lot of car companies out there who have been making cars a lot longer than Tesla that have more problems. As an engineer, that impresses me quite a bit.

However, that doesn't put them above criticism. People should keep things in perspective though and not harp on things that in the grand scheme of things are not critical flaws. They need addressing, but they aren't the end of the world.
 
Thanks again, everyone, for the kind words.

As mentioned, I'm not completely vanishing, but I'm definitely going to just stick to threads related to my projects and some purely technical topics as time allows.