Advice on Buying a CPO Model S

[BinaryField]

Hi all, this is yet another purchasing advice thread. I've been doing a lot of searching and reading forum threads on my own lately, and I'm starting to zero in on some of my preferences. I still have some specific questions that I was hoping to find some help on from experienced owners.

I'm looking at buying a lightly used 2014/2015 Model S at the moment. My budget is somewhere in the range of $50-60K. One requirement is that it must have AP1. I drive about 90 miles total per day (about 75% freeway) for my commute, and my expectation is that it can lessen the strain. If successful, it would also help in encouraging me to go out more and take more road trips, since the limiting factor has always been dealing with the stress of driving around the LA Basin. I'd like to have at least a few features too. I know that it's no comparison, but my current car, a Nissan Versa, is pretty bare bones itself, so I want to get away from that. (Bought the car when I was still a starving graduate student. This is my first time shopping for an entry / mid-level luxury vehicle.)

Here are my questions:

1. Does a Model S seem to fit my use case, particularly using AP1 to get through LA traffic / take road trips? How is the performance in general of AP1? Is it worth just holding out for AP2? (And sort of on the side, what functions does AP1 actually offer besides lane-keeping? I tried searching, but all I find are lists of functions for AP2.)
   
2. Is there any value in the older Model S, or should I save my money and look for something else? What models / features should I be looking for for my budget?
3. Many of these CPO models offer free supercharging. How will the supercharging network handle the flood of Model 3s in the coming months? I feel like it will become only a token feature if superchargers are flooded all the time.
4. Are there any maintenance concerns for the 2014 / 2015 models? What should I expect for regular maintenance?
5. Any other advice or comments?

Sorry that the post got so long. Any reply, long or short, is much appreciated all the same!

 

[JonG]

Yes, for your mileage it should be fine assuming you can charge at home or work. Personally, the thought of using super chargers every day is just too inconvenient.

AP should also help with your commute. I don’t know your specific traffic issues but I had a 140 mile round trip commute and it would just lock on to the car in front.

AP1 and EAP do pretty much the same thing, traffic aware cruise (maintains a set distance from the car in front, and lane keeping. This is essentially the core AP functionality aside from safety stuff and parking help. They also have lane change but you initiate this manually, the car then does the manoeuvre - both varients have this. What EAP/AP2 will give over AP1 is anyones guess, but I wouldn’t hang on for it. I doubt it rains much where you are but AP2 doesn’t have auto wipers and the auto high beam isn’t as reliable. AP1 is a very sorted product and if they’d come out in reverse order I’m sure people would be celebrating what improvement AP1 was.

Maintenance side, battery and drive train is 8 years, but there are still plenty of niggles that can occur, door handles, that screen, air suspension if the car has it etc. If you buy CPO from Tesla they’ll extend the warranty for you anyway.

 

[BinaryField]

Thanks a ton. This gives me more confidence in the older models.

I'm trying to arrange a one or two day rental of a Model S with AP1 from Turo. Hopefully I can play around with its functions and see how it does. (It's been a real challenge to get one. Most people there won't rent to drivers under 30.)

 

[THXULTRA]

Thanks a ton. This gives me more confidence in the older models.

I'm trying to arrange a one or two day rental of a Model S with AP1 from Turo. Hopefully I can play around with its functions and see how it does. (It's been a real challenge to get one. Most people there won't rent to drivers under 30.)

Also looking into this. Questioning if a CPO is worth it since you don't get the tax credit. Also lose out of those years of warrenty and get a battery with that many years of use. I have read there are lots of issues with door handles on the 2013s. Heard they got those sorted out on the later models though.

 

[BinaryField]

Also looking into this. Questioning if a CPO is worth it since you don't get the tax credit. Also lose out of those years of warrenty and get a battery with that many years of use. I have read there are lots of issues with door handles on the 2013s. Heard they got those sorted out on the later models though.

I've sort of been going through that math myself. If I take advantage of the tax incentives, the most I can get in the $60K range is a bare bones S75D. Perhaps I can get a bit more value by going the CPO route. I don't know much about vehicle wear or battery longevity unfortunately, which is the remainder of my uncertainty.

I'm having some trouble understanding private party sales as well. I'm seeing that a lot of people price their cars as if the tax incentives didn't exist. In many cases, I could get the exact same car brand new for the same price after claiming the incentives. I've never purchased any used "big ticket" items before, and this is basically the reason why. I don't really understand how I'm necessarily saving on depreciation by going used.

 

[Akikiki]

You both have made good arguments for buying new. But you have also made good arguments for buying only a year or two old. Everyone has to decide what works for them because you have to live with your decision and not every decision is driven solely by the price you pay.

Want to know if an older battery is holding up? Want to know if AP1 is nearly as good or as good as AP2? Then you need to do your homework to the point that you and only you are satisfied with the conclusion you reach. Read the forums. Read everything you can. I believe that 99% of what you read on TM and TMC is truthful. 99% of the owners here want only to be helpful.

Good luck.

 

[Jason S]

Try the seats in both. Some people prefer the seats in the older cars. You'll be spending a bit of time in the seat, so don't shortchange your own comfort.

 

[Tam]

...what functions does AP1 actually offer besides lane-keeping...

I think function-wise AP1 offers same features except for AP2 that WILL "automatically change lanes without requiring driver input."

Currently, both AP1 and AP2 requires an owner to turn on the turn signal. However, AP2 promises that in future owners won't even have to touch the turn signal at all!

I prefer AP2 because I am not sure AP1 can handle what I experienced in Construction Zone (although Owner's Manual prohibits using Autopilot in construction zone in the first place). You might want to turn on the Closed Caption because of my accent with these youtube clips below:

1) The car was very close to cement median barrier

2) which is part of yellow marker

3) Tricky Curves due to Construction Rerouting

4) 2 short stretches of missing Lane markers:

It's possible that AP2 has 40x processing power than AP1 does so it could do the above with ease.

...How will the supercharging network handle the flood of Model 3s in the coming months? I feel like it will become only a token feature if superchargers are flooded all the time...

"Flooded" superchargers with waiting cars in line has been a problem in some even since their first day and there's no need to wait for Model 3.

An example is San Juan Capistrano, CA which will be improved with additional locations near it in future.

But I can't wait for additional stations forever so I got the highest capacity battery pack I could get (100 kWh for now) so I have an option to skip a station or two as needed.

 

[THXULTRA]

You both have made good arguments for buying new. But you have also made good arguments for buying only a year or two old. Everyone has to decide what works for them because you have to live with your decision and not every decision is driven solely by the price you pay.

Want to know if an older battery is holding up? Want to know if AP1 is nearly as good or as good as AP2? Then you need to do your homework to the point that you and only you are satisfied with the conclusion you reach. Read the forums. Read everything you can. I believe that 99% of what you read on TM and TMC is truthful. 99% of the owners here want only to be helpful.

Good luck.

I'm just surprised how little these cars depreciate. For me I will not buy one from a third party if I go used it will be a CPO from Tesla. I did watch some videos and Tesla makes the car like new. Noticed they replaced the tires and made the paint perfect. Also Tesla is the only place that can service these cars. That being said the CPO's still go for big bucks. Cheapest AWD model is $70k... To me for the extra $9k (after the tax credit) you get a brand new car. New Battery, Updated Auto Pilot hardware (not that auto pilot 1 isn't good enough for me), New design (I like the look of the new front end), Full 8 years warranty on battery and drive train. Guess for me it is worth it to go new because of the tax credit and how little these cars seem to depreciate. That being said says a lot about the car that it doesn't depreciate like crazy. I also agree people on this forum have been great. Getting lots of great information appreciate all the help I have gotten. I research my cars for over a year before I buy so I take all the help I can get!!!

 

[nycmike]

Thanks a ton. This gives me more confidence in the older models.

I'm trying to arrange a one or two day rental of a Model S with AP1 from Turo. Hopefully I can play around with its functions and see how it does. (It's been a real challenge to get one. Most people there won't rent to drivers under 30.)

If you take a visit to the Tesla showroom and speak with an Advisor, they may be able to get your an extended test drive. It would be good so you can test out your commute with the car along with charging at the various superchargers / level 2 charging network around you.

 

[nanijoe]

The CPOs are priced too high at the moment..Go to ev-cpo and you'll see the trend over the last few weeks. In fact many of the CPOs have seen price increases recently.
I can only guess as to what Teslas motives are

I'm just surprised how little these cars depreciate. For me I will not buy one from a third party if I go used it will be a CPO from Tesla. I did watch some videos and Tesla makes the car like new. Noticed they replaced the tires and made the paint perfect. Also Tesla is the only place that can service these cars. That being said the CPO's still go for big bucks. Cheapest AWD model is $70k... To me for the extra $9k (after the tax credit) you get a brand new car. New Battery, Updated Auto Pilot hardware (not that auto pilot 1 isn't good enough for me), New design (I like the look of the new front end), Full 8 years warranty on battery and drive train. Guess for me it is worth it to go new because of the tax credit and how little these cars seem to depreciate. That being said says a lot about the car that it doesn't depreciate like crazy. I also agree people on this forum have been great. Getting lots of great information appreciate all the help I have gotten. I research my cars for over a year before I buy so I take all the help I can get!!!

 

[THXULTRA]

The CPOs are priced too high at the moment..Go to ev-cpo and you'll see the trend over the last few weeks. In fact many of the CPOs have seen price increases recently.
I can only guess as to what Teslas motives are

Wondering if they are trying to boost new sales by pricing the CPO's so high. I have nothing against getting a CPO but right now with the prices they don't seem to add up. I have some time before I can buy anyway but hoping prices go down by then. See some good deals on leaseswap too so taking over someone's lease may be a possibility for me also... Not planning on buying till at least June though so I have plenty of time for research and lots will change by then...

 

[zer0cool]

You appear to be pretty cost conscious. If that's the case, I wouldn't recommend buying any Model S given your driving patterns. At 90 miles a day, say over 250 days per year, would be 22500 miles a year even without counting weekend driving. Basically let's just be conservative and say you drive 25k miles per year. Model S depreciates very quickly with miles. Honestly assuming you spend 60k on a CPO today, after 4 to 5 years, the car will be almost worthless... like maybe a bit more than the sales tax you pay to buy it today.

So on ownership cost, you are down 60k without even counting maintenance and electricity cost. It's REALLY expensive.

Given how many miles you drive, I would recommend a very gas efficient Toyota or Chevy volt (both say 2 years old or so). Those cars, after another 100-150k miles (particularly the Toyota) will probably sell a similar amount as the Model S after these same miles.

 

[BinaryField]

I think function-wise AP1 offers same features except for AP2 that WILL "automatically change lanes without requiring driver input."

Currently, both AP1 and AP2 requires an owner to turn on the turn signal. However, AP2 promises that in future owners won't even have to touch the turn signal at all!

I prefer AP2 because I am not sure AP1 can handle what I experienced in Construction Zone (although Owner's Manual prohibits using Autopilot in construction zone in the first place). You might want to turn on the Closed Caption because of my accent with these youtube clips below:

1) The car was very close to cement median barrier

2) which is part of yellow marker

3) Tricky Curves due to Construction Rerouting

4) 2 short stretches of missing Lane markers:

It's possible that AP2 has 40x processing power than AP1 does so it could do the above with ease.



"Flooded" superchargers with waiting cars in line has been a problem in some even since their first day and there's no need to wait for Model 3.

An example is San Juan Capistrano, CA which will be improved with additional locations near it in future.

But I can't wait for additional stations forever so I got the highest capacity battery pack I could get (100 kWh for now) so I have an option to skip a station or two as needed.

Very interesting footage, if a little scary! No problems understanding your accent either - it's very minor.

Hm...I'm a little nervous to hear about the current supercharger situation. It sounds like if they are having crowding problems now, they will become unusable in the coming months.

If you take a visit to the Tesla showroom and speak with an Advisor, they may be able to get your an extended test drive. It would be good so you can test out your commute with the car along with charging at the various superchargers / level 2 charging network around you.

I have the card of a guy I spoke to at a Tesla store. I'll send him an email and see what can be done.

The CPOs are priced too high at the moment..Go to ev-cpo and you'll see the trend over the last few weeks. In fact many of the CPOs have seen price increases recently.
I can only guess as to what Teslas motives are

I've started to notice this lately. Looking at the archived listings, there were many S85s that looked like they fell into my price range. Now it looks like they've gone up by at least 10 - 15%.

You appear to be pretty cost conscious. If that's the case, I wouldn't recommend buying any Model S given your driving patterns. At 90 miles a day, say over 250 days per year, would be 22500 miles a year even without counting weekend driving. Basically let's just be conservative and say you drive 25k miles per year. Model S depreciates very quickly with miles. Honestly assuming you spend 60k on a CPO today, after 4 to 5 years, the car will be almost worthless... like maybe a bit more than the sales tax you pay to buy it today.

So on ownership cost, you are down 60k without even counting maintenance and electricity cost. It's REALLY expensive.

Given how many miles you drive, I would recommend a very gas efficient Toyota or Chevy volt (both say 2 years old or so). Those cars, after another 100-150k miles (particularly the Toyota) will probably sell a similar amount as the Model S after these same miles.

This is an informative angle. My primary reason for looking into Tesla is for automation to relieve the strain of my commute (which I value quite a lot). Being electric and forward in tech are mostly side benefits to me. Maybe I can hold out for a Model 3 to try to be a bit more cost effective, even though I'm not a fan of it at all.

 

[nycmike]

Very interesting footage, if a little scary! No problems understanding your accent either - it's very minor.

Hm...I'm a little nervous to hear about the current supercharger situation. It sounds like if they are having crowding problems now, they will become unusable in the coming months.



I have the card of a guy I spoke to at a Tesla store. I'll send him an email and see what can be done.



I've started to notice this lately. Looking at the archived listings, there were many S85s that looked like they fell into my price range. Now it looks like they've gone up by at least 10 - 15%.



This is an informative angle. My primary reason for looking into Tesla is for automation to relieve the strain of my commute (which I value quite a lot). Being electric and forward in tech are mostly side benefits to me. Maybe I can hold out for a Model 3 to try to be a bit more cost effective, even though I'm not a fan of it at all.

how much are you spending on gas and maintenance on your current vehicle? my coworker drives 22k a year and is saving $600 a month just on gas alone.

 

[cameronr]

I drive about 35k miles a year and based on my calculations, I'll save about $350/mo (see attached). To save $600/mo on 22k miles, I think you'd have to be driving something really inefficient (e.g. 10 mpg) now or be paying a crazy high amount for gas. Even using free super charging for all of those miles would only save about $76/mo.

 

[BinaryField]

how much are you spending on gas and maintenance on your current vehicle? my coworker drives 22k a year and is saving $600 a month just on gas alone.

I get about 45 MPG for my commute, which ends up being no more than $150 each month. I wouldn't expect substantial savings by going electric due to the rates in Southern California.

I don't do as much maintenance as I probably should, but I'm estimating a few hundred dollars a year or less on average. Haven't had any issues with my current car so far.

 

[thegooch49]

I did watch some videos and Tesla makes the car like new.

Do you have a link to these videos? I'd love to see what they do.

 

[thegooch49]

The CPOs are priced too high at the moment..Go to ev-cpo and you'll see the trend over the last few weeks. In fact many of the CPOs have seen price increases recently.

I gotta disagree. I think there have been some screaming deals in the past few weeks. There have only been a few CPO cars that have sold with AP1, for less than $50K. Of the 6 x AP1 cars that have sold for less than $50K ever, 3 of them were in the past few weeks. (Source: ev-cpo)

 

[nycmike]

I get about 45 MPG for my commute, which ends up being no more than $150 each month. I wouldn't expect substantial savings by going electric due to the rates in Southern California.

I don't do as much maintenance as I probably should, but I'm estimating a few hundred dollars a year or less on average. Haven't had any issues with my current car so far.

Not many cars out there besides Tesla that can give you AP so the 2014 (late model) or 2015 would fit the bill.