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Afraid to trust navigation system

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by Andyw2100, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    I am afraid to trust my P85Ds navigation system, based on some things I saw it attempt to do on Wednesday night.

    I was picking up my car in Rochester, NY after having it OptiCoat Pro'd there, and was driving it back to Ithaca. I had entered my home address, mainly to have the navigation system help me get back to the NYS Thruway from the detailer's, as I basically knew how I wanted to go beyond that. But I left the navigation system on anyway, and it was messing up in a major way.

    For starters, it was going to keep me on the Thruway for about thirty or thirty-five miles more than I needed to stay on the Thruway for. I didn't look at the rest of the directions, but I believe the only thing possible from there was that the system was going to take me home through Syracuse, NY. Take a look at a map, look at Rochester, Ithaca, and Syracuse, and see just how ridiculous that is!

    I did, in fact, Exit the NYS Thruway where I wanted to, to be able to Take Route 89 south along Cayuga Lake, towards Ithaca. At this point the Nav system was fighting me for quite a while, and trying to insist that I travel around the other side of the lake. (I'm not sure how big a mistake that would have been, but it would have been a much smaller mistake than the previous one.)

    Eventually it accepted Route 89 as an acceptable route. But here is where things get really crazy. Periodically it kept trying to get me to turn off of Route 89, which leads directly into Ithaca, and onto side roads that would be headed in different directions. This could not have had anything to do with traffic as it was between 7:00 and 8:00 PM, and there were basically almost no other cars on the road, and there just isn't ever traffic on these roads, and even if there was, there wouldn't be any reporting of it. We're not talking about the 405 in LA.

    My concern is that if I wanted to rely on the car's navigation system in an area where I really did not know my way around, I don't think I could. I guess if I know I am close to a highway or something, and just want to rely on the car's system to help get me to the highway, that may be fine, but for anything important and with any distance involved I think I'm going to have to rely on Mapquest or Google Maps or something like that.

    I had read in these forums that the Navigation system was not up to par with respect to lack of features. I knew you couldn't select from a choice of routes, or decide between optimizing for speed or lack of tolls, etc. And I also had read that the big screen sometimes flaked out, redrew things, would have people drive in circles, etc. , but that the dashboard navigation was OK. I don't think I had read that the system was actually unreliable with respect to crazy routing. I really hope this is something that gets corrected in a future software release. It would be nice to be able to rely on the car's built in navigation system.
     
  2. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    While not perfect, I think your experience and small sample size are much more the exception than the rule.

    I've driven about 12000 miles in my Model S so far, including round trips to Chicago, Dayton, Burlington, VT, Washington, DC and many other trips, and never really had a problem as you describe. Sure, it's done a few kooky things that I needed to override, but nothing really serious.

    I'd give it a lot more time and experience (yours, not its) to see how good/bad it really is. Just don't follow it blindly.
     
  3. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Member

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    I don't want to challenge your words. Just my observations after the latest navigation update. And yes, I agree with you that it needs a lot more work.

    Although I am not always satisfied with the routes the navigation system suggests, it often took me to my destination in the minimum time. I have the traffic info on all the time. It avoids lineups even before they are announced on the radio. It prefers faster streets (Autobahns) even if means more miles. I wish I could somehow influence the tradeoff (sorry I can't). The navigation system seems aware of the actual speed driven on any part of the route. This is amazing. Other navigation systems just classify the kind of road you are using (Autobahn, secondary, inner city), but my model S is aware of the actual traffic speeds at this time. It will even reroute as the traffic density and speed changes.

    In Germany I guess speeds vary a lot more than in the US. On the Autobahn we tend to go between 100 (62.5 mph) and 180 km/h (112.5 mph - will the US ever go metric?) depending on traffic (sometimes more than that). Other roads between towns are limited to 100 km/h. So Autobahns can really be up to twice as fast as secondary roads, traffic permitting. That is why I am so happy with the traffic aware routing delivered by Tesla.
     
  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Actually I've seen some weirdness with the V6 navigation. Last week I made the mistake of blindly following navigation instructions in an unfamiliar area. It took me down a mud road (I mean literally mud - I thought I was going to get stuck, and the car got totally covered in mud). Only once I realized what was happening did I realize it took me PAST my turn and took me on this dogleg just so it could bathe me in mud and make me drive a couple of extra kilometers. (No there wasn't any traffic indication and it was definitely a longer route - it had NO reason for doing that.)

    After that I was in Toronto and noted it was diverting me out of my way. I assumed traffic but then I noticed that there only one tiny little bit of red at one intersection. I ignored the advice, which was a good thing because there wasn't any significant traffic on the direct route. It kept trying to divert me left and right.

    On top of that, it kept predicting ridiculous arrival times, in one case an hour later than what I actually managed. I was even driving for efficiency, not for speed! It was as if it was expecting 50 kph speed limits on all roads except the 400 series highways (what Americans call freeways). Heck, it even tried to tell me to drive dozens of extra km at each end of my trip so I could take the 401. Utter nonsense!
     
  5. mibaro2

    mibaro2 Member

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    It is not perfect. But on my first trip to Chicago from Ontario, it got me there without a problem. I have been able to rely on it going to areas that I am not familiar with.
    Generally, I find it always wants to take the quickest route (although not the case in your report).

    I agree it needs some work.
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    It does seem to want to take the quickest route, and V6 appears to be a step back from V5. It's main problem is that there is no "avoid" or "use if possible" selections. That said, I use it a lot and the trick (which really applies to every Nav system I've used) is to know where you're going, at least generally, and ignore the unreasonable directions. Muting the sound helps a lot.
     
  7. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it has more problems with rural, lesser traveled areas than it does with more urban areas or with more well-known areas.

    I'll certainly continue trying to use it, but I think for any serious use in an area I really don't know I'll want to compare what the navigation system intends to do with what Google Maps or something else suggests first, and then also make sure that it sticks to the plan.
     
  8. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    Agree, rural areas are much more of a challenge for any of the NAV systems (stock or aftermarket) that I have used on any of the cars that I have owned...

     
  9. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    I do hope that anyone running into an odd issue brings it to Tesla's attention.
    Telling us about it is all fine and good.
    Telling Tesla about it can actually lead to improvements.
     
  10. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    I'll be happy to tell Tesla about it. I hadn't planned to, because I thought it was generally understood that for now the navigation system was flaky, and needed to be improved. I was just trying to add to the knowledge-base here with respect to some extra-special flakyness. But I'll certainly edit what I wrote above accordingly, and send it along to ownership@, in hopes they do something positive with it. Thanks for suggesting that.
     
  11. MacLeodMX

    MacLeodMX Member

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    #11 MacLeodMX, Jan 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2015
    I have learned to take a minute or two to zoom out and review the route before setting off. It can be bat**** crazy sometimes, but random and often enough that I don't trust it any more. I hope they will partner with Garmin eventually.
     
  12. johnnyS

    johnnyS Member

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    Since we have had the software update where the navigation is suppose to take traffic into account, I have seen weird directions. Often I will select home or office just for help in finding a freeway ramp, once I am on the freeway I know where I am going. The navigation will direct me off the freeway, then back on at the next ramp or on side streets. Now when I am going somewhere unfamiliar, I check the route before I get in the car.
     
  13. jcaspar

    jcaspar Member

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    I have used the system for several long (500+ mile) trips and it generally does very well. It does come up with some funky routes to avoid traffic but in general, these routes, while not direct, are the fastest ways there. On our last long drive from Pismo Beach to Gilroy, there was some major construction with significant slow downs on the direct route. Waze suggested one bypass, Tesla another. I took the Waze one which was shorter but a mistake as it took us on a single lane highway that was packed and double the direct distance. Wish I had gone with the Tesla route on that one.
    You can turn off the traffic adjustment which will give you the most direct route independent of traffic. The off and on the freeway is to avoid traffic and, while it may be faster, does seem a little strange.
     
  14. Liz G

    Liz G P03056

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    My Model S's nav has allowed me to tour some of the more remote parts of America that I would never have if I had simply consulted a map.

    But with that said, I have learned that the flag is always in the right spot on the actual map. So when the nav does lead me astray, I simply revisit my youth and find my own route the old fashioned way.

    Us early adopters must learn to make lemonade where we can.
     
  15. Bill D

    Bill D Member

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    I've seen a few instances where the directions indicated on my instrument panel vastly differ from the directions indicated on my touchscreen. When this happens, I found the instrument panel directions seem to be correct so I defer to them. The erroneous touchscreen directions seem like they may be related to the most recent previous destination. Zooming in or out will cause my touchscreen to recompute and get in sync with the instrument panel.
     
  16. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    It totally, completely sucks.

    Oh sure, SOMETIMES, it will give you a good route. But many times it will not and ask you to do a bunch of weird things. It isn't as if the computer can't figure it out. Usually, when it's giving me a weird route that is an hour too long, when I go the way I know how to go, it'll eventually recalculate and chop a huge amount of time off the estimate.

    A nav system that SOMETIMES works, doesn't work at all IMHO. I've gotten to the point of using my iPad running google maps instead for the actual route.
     
  17. caddieo

    caddieo Member

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    It has been reliable for me so far but I did have one experience similar to the OP's. I was headed south on I-4 with the intent of shifting to the northbound FL Turnpike in order to access the Turkey Lake Oasis Supercharger. I turned Nav on so I could check the configuration of the I-4/Turnpike interchange rather than for directions and was surprised to see an outlined route directing me to the northern portion of the FL Turnpike from north Orlando so as to approach Turkey Lake from north - a much longer route as it used secondary state highways. Each time I went past a suggested exit, it would re-draw the roundabout route to the north Turnpike using the next available interchange and connecting roads. This continued until the only option left was to follow my intended route which it then outlined as desired. I do not think it was based on traffic conditions as it was well after rush hour and I-4 was running smoothly. I wonder if this happened because the supercharger pedestals are closer to the southbound ramps of the oasis than to the northbound ones.
     
  18. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    Thank you!
    We have 65,000 miles on ours. Navigation for us has been very good. Every once in a great while something slightly odd would come up.
    If Tesla never hears of issues though, they can't fix them:)
     
  19. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    I've actually had my dash map and 17" map disagree on a couple of occasions... anyone seen this?
     
  20. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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    Everyday. Dash map comes from 2.5 year old Navigon database and current Google maps on the main map. Given the massive changes in my area, they are often different.
     

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