Afraid to trust navigation system

[bluenation]

i thought the system was based on google maps?

my phone's google maps has been good to me.

 

[Cosmacelf]

The actual route shown seems to be Tesla's own software.

 

[RiverBrick]

Everyday. Dash map comes from 2.5 year old Navigon database and current Google maps on the main map. Given the massive changes in my area, they are often different.

Have you been able to download the map updates? They've been a big improvement over the obsolete maps.

 

[jerry33]

ou can turn off the traffic adjustment which will give you the most direct route independent of traffic. The off and on the freeway is to avoid traffic and, while it may be faster, does seem a little strange.

However, I've had this on and off behaviour when there was no traffic on the freeway. I'm guessing that it erroneously chose the shortest distance--even though there was a stop light to be negotiated.

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i thought the system was based on google maps?

Only the 17" display is Google. The actual Nav system is Navigon. Tesla has integrated them so that you use Google to find a destination and then that destination is input to Navigon. Then Navigon draws the blue line on the 17" display. You can verify this by going too an area where there is no 3G service. The blue line will be there, but no underlying map.

Unfortunately, the integration is only partial so you can't use Google's "avoid" or change the route by moving the dots. It's too bad because those features would be really useful.

 

[bollar]

Have you been able to download the map updates? They've been a big improvement over the obsolete maps.

Sadly not. The car is connected to wifi at home and I have asked @service and the Service Cemter about it and both say that I'll get it when it's my turn.

In in any event, I use Waze, so it's no longer a crucial deal for me.

Here's what a typical drives looks like:

 

[bob_p]

The route provided by the NAV software should be viewed only as advice - and not necessarily the best route - especially when the NAV map may not be up to date. The new version 6 traffic-based routing can help - but again, should only be used as advice, because I sat for several hours in a traffic jam several months ago, when the routing could have avoided it if I'd turned off the freeway just a mile earlier...

And when the NAV and Google maps aren't consistent, the routing can be completely useless because you can see the road on the touchscreen, but the NAV software doesn't have that road and will keep trying to route you to the nearest road on the NAV map.

 

[Andyw2100]

I'll be happy to tell Tesla about it. I hadn't planned to, because I thought it was generally understood that for now the navigation system was flaky, and needed to be improved. I was just trying to add to the knowledge-base here with respect to some extra-special flakyness. But I'll certainly edit what I wrote above accordingly, and send it along to ownership@, in hopes they do something positive with it. Thanks for suggesting that.

Thank you!
We have 65,000 miles on ours. Navigation for us has been very good. Every once in a great while something slightly odd would come up.
If Tesla never hears of issues though, they can't fix them

I wrote to Tesla and received the following response:

--
Thank you for contacting Tesla Motors Technical Support. I appreciate the detailed feedback you have shared with us regarding the navigation system. I can reassure you that our teams at Tesla Motors are aware of this, and we look forward to fixing these concerns in future firmware releases.

If you have any further concerns or questions, please feel free to reach us at [email protected] or 877-79-TESLA


Regards,
--

So apparently they are aware of the problem. Even so, it probably wouldn't hurt if more people wrote, giving them examples of specific areas where the system malfunctions badly, and also to express concern, so that perhaps fixing the problems becomes a higher priority.

 

[jcaspar]

You can see what it is doing here. Trying to avoid that large section of red ahead. While not direct, it is probably faster based on the navigation algorithm it is using and may even be faster in real life given the amount of heavy traffic you would avoid. If you turn off the "use traffic" option in the app settings, you will get the more direct route thru the heavy traffic.

Sadly not. The car is connected to wifi at home and I have asked @service and the Service Cemter about it and both say that I'll get it when it's my turn.

In in any event, I use Waze, so it's no longer a crucial deal for me.

Here's what a typical drives looks like:

View attachment 67911

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Yes, I have had this happen a few times.

I've actually had my dash map and 17" map disagree on a couple of occasions... anyone seen this?

 

[Odenator]

Actually I've seen some weirdness with the V6 navigation. Last week I made the mistake of blindly following navigation instructions in an unfamiliar area. It took me down a mud road (I mean literally mud - I thought I was going to get stuck, and the car got totally covered in mud). Only once I realized what was happening did I realize it took me PAST my turn and took me on this dogleg just so it could bathe me in mud and make me drive a couple of extra kilometers. (No there wasn't any traffic indication and it was definitely a longer route - it had NO reason for doing that)

Yup, the nav has also taken me down a mud road, blocked by a sand burm when a perfectly good highway was paralleling my route.

I have also had trouble driving through Vancouver BC with the nav routing me literally in a circle to my destination.

 

[RAW84]

I just want to echo the sentiments that the navigation is horrendous.

I've turned the nav on whilst driving down a major city street. The nav kept trying to get me to take a right, so I could take some side streets parallel to this major street, then cross over the major street and travel some more side streets. Truly made no sense.

On another occasion, instead of telling me to take the on-ramp to the interstate highway which was coming up on the right, it wanted me to take a left a half mile down the road and ride some side street for a mile or so and then get on the highway at some other point.

I feel bad for anyone who needs to use nav daily.

They really should switch to Google, Google does it so well.

 

[bollar]

You can see what it is doing here. Trying to avoid that large section of red ahead. While not direct, it is probably faster based on the navigation algorithm it is using and may even be faster in real life given the amount of heavy traffic you would avoid. If you turn off the "use traffic" option in the app settings, you will get the more direct route thru the heavy traffic.

Not in this case. It happens every day here and numerous other places -- I just used this example since I was stopped and could safely take the picture. The road I was on doesn't exist on the Navigon side.

 

[ecarfan]

My wife and I use the Model S nav regularly. We find it pretty good, but not perfect. I would certainly not describe it as "horrendous". It is far better than the nav in the 2008 Prius and 2009 Porsche Cayman that we used to drive.

Yes the Model S nav could be better, no question. I would like to be able to drag the route around on the center display in the same way I can in Google Maps in a browser.

 

[mdlambert]

I just want to echo the sentiments that the navigation is horrendous.

I've turned the nav on whilst driving down a major city street. The nav kept trying to get me to take a right, so I could take some side streets parallel to this major street, then cross over the major street and travel some more side streets. Truly made no sense.

On another occasion, instead of telling me to take the on-ramp to the interstate highway which was coming up on the right, it wanted me to take a left a half mile down the road and ride some side street for a mile or so and then get on the highway at some other point.

I feel bad for anyone who needs to use nav daily.

They really should switch to Google, Google does it so well.

I totally agree. I was in Miami, and it routed me back to Naples on a 2 lane road (which was probably the shortest), but not on I75. I finally had to cancel the navigation, and use my iPhone/Google Maps, to route me to the interstate. The software lacks options such as route choices, fastest routing, toll roads, etc. Certainly not what one would expect for a $135,000 car.

 

[HankLloydRight]

It's bad in other cars too.

My 2010 BMW Z4 and my girlfriend's 2009 BMW 335i both had the "NJ Turnpike" problem that BMW refuses to acknowledge. The problem was that when driving down the NJTP (say to points south), the Nav would direct the driver to get off at every exit (through the tolls), and then loop around and get right back on. EVERY SINGLE EXIT. Luckily, being from New Jersey, I knew these routings were complete garbage, but I suspect it really tripped up A LOT of other people who don't know that road. It was as-if there was a complete road blockage at each exit, necessitating the exit/re-entry at each exit.

 

[Cosmacelf]

My wife's QX56 Infiniti nav works just fine without the crap routes I routinely see on my Model S. Also, while you have to pay for it, they do come out with yearly Nav updates. I've had exactly one nav update (which doesn't help with the poor route selection) in two years of owning my Model S.

I really do hope Tesla is aware of the severity of the nav problems and is working on a fix. But allocating engineers to work on calendar integration while the nav is shot with bugs isn't indicative of a company that is taking nav seriously.

 

[Andyw2100]

I really do hope Tesla is aware of the severity of the nav problems and is working on a fix. But allocating engineers to work on calendar integration while the nav is shot with bugs isn't indicative of a company that is taking nav seriously.

I'd strongly suggest sending a quick note to [email protected] or to [email protected], which was the address they asked me to write to in the response they sent me, which I included upthread. I'd also suggest that others who have posted their specific examples of the navigation system malfunctioning in serious ways send that information in. It will probably take you just five to ten minutes to copy your post and modify it a little bit to work it into an appropriately formatted email message. The more people that write in expressing their concern over the problem, the greater the likelihood that Tesla will treat the problem as a high priority issue.

Thanks!

 

[castor]

I think Tesla software development is heavily understaffed, owners have been asking for basic features for ages, servers are going down regularly for the official and third party apps, several regressions are there for long time. I think until Tesla don't increment sales (call it production constrain) they will try to maximize profits instead increment engineering, until then I don't think we will see much of a change for now.


I bet the software upgrade to be released at end of January to increase efficiency on the D version will take many resources.

 

[bob_p]

It appears Tesla's software strategy continues to be focusing on delivering major new features (with basic functionality) and not in going back to previous features and expanding that functionality.

Instead of bringing media playback and navigation up to levels of functionality comparable to other vehicles (or smartphone apps), Tesla appear to continue to prioritize their resources for bringing out new features like "calendar" - again, with limited functionality.

At some point, Tesla should allocate at least a portion of their software resources to addressing the huge (and growing) backlog of requests to expand functionality of the already released features - items such as playlists or waypoints.

And the navigation software really needs a major overhaul. The architecture of using infrequently (and always guaranteed to be obsolete) maps for navigation routing and using up-to-date maps on the touchscreen display should be redone - and have all navigation driven by up-to-date maps - used by both the navigation and touchscreen display. For a car that can have high-speed WiFi connectivity, the concept of annually updated maps doesn't make sense.

 

[jerry33]

For a car that can have high-speed WiFi connectivity, the concept of annually updated maps doesn't make sense.

Tesla purchases the Nav software from Navigon. Navigon updates yearly. That's not under Tesla's control. The Google maps used in the 17" display should be up to date.

 

[Andyw2100]

Tesla purchases the Nav software from Navigon. Navigon updates yearly. That's not under Tesla's control. The Google maps used in the 17" display should be up to date.

I'm a little confused by this statement, as it applies to other things I've read here about which system works consistently well.

My understanding, from reading other posts on these forums, is that while the navigation systems, and the information displayed on the 17-inch display is often doing crazy things, and seems somewhat off-base, the directions on the dash are consistent and spot-on. I've been wondering where those would come from if one had a route set through the navigation system that was acting oddly. What I mean is, would the navigation system be giving one set of directions, while the dash was indicating another? That had been the question I was wondering about, but not asking. Now, seeing the above, I am even more confused. Because it sounds like the 17 inch display is Google maps, which is the same, functioning navigation that works just fine on our phones and computers, and that Navigon would be the app we see on the dash, although perhaps it is also responsible somehow for the routing.

Would anyone care to take a shot at explaining how these things interact, and where the big problems are introduced, and if, in fact, there is one aspect of the system that --CAN-- currently be safely relied on or not?

Thanks!

Edit: I just may have figured out a piece of this myself, though I could still use some help with it. Perhaps Google Maps is only supplying the actual maps for the 17 inch display, but none of the routing / navigational information. That would explain why it's not working as well as Google Maps on our phones and computers. Is that right?