After Model X, what should be our next car?

[TeeEmCee]

Of what you listed in the poll, I can only speak to the Q7 and, to a much smaller extent, the Volvo.

You will get better driving dynamics in the Audi and likely better reliability. If you go with an Audi Q7, I’d stay away from the 4-cylinder ones. Yes, they work, but they’re not that great in that big a vehicle.

I assume you’re looking for a new vehicle. If not, a left-field suggestion would be an older Q7 TDI. I have one, it’s been bullet-proof for 6 years now, the freight-train torque is a lot of fun and the interior still looks better than a lot of new ones. I find the leather from those days to be a lot nicer than what they use these days and the plastics are softer/nicer as well. It has plenty of space and a decently-usable third row.

If you want to stick with an EV, you could consider an eTron. It’s a touch tighter than a current-gen Q7, 3 seats across will work, but not with any space to spare. It’s also quite a bit lower (can be raised though). The trunk of the eTron is way smaller than that of the Q7 (it’s more Q5 sized).

The eTron is significantly quieter than an X, with a smoother ride yet quite fun in the corners, despite the heavy nose (more terminal understeer than the X). Not as quick to 60, about 1/2-1 sec slower. Tech just works, the software is a bit crap though (however with more features - e.g. carplay). Charges faster than an X (real-life speed, not hypothetical best on V3 superchargers) and, surprisingly, despite whatever you’ll read around here, it uses about as much energy per mile as an X. If you speak German, search for “Bloch Erklaert Audi Etron” on YouTube. They have a thorough consumption test of the eTron vs the Model X that perfectly mirrors my experience with my own.

If any of these two options are appealing to you and you need further opinions or pictures, let me know.

 

[Lhshockey24]

Of what you listed in the poll, I can only speak to the Q7 and, to a much smaller extent, the Volvo.

You will get better driving dynamics in the Audi and likely better reliability. If you go with an Audi Q7, I’d stay away from the 4-cylinder ones. Yes, they work, but they’re not that great in that big a vehicle.

I assume you’re looking for a new vehicle. If not, a left-field suggestion would be an older Q7 TDI. I have one, it’s been bullet-proof for 6 years now, the freight-train torque is a lot of fun and the interior still looks better than a lot of new ones. I find the leather from those days to be a lot nicer than what they use these days and the plastics are softer/nicer as well. It has plenty of space and a decently-usable third row.

If you want to stick with an EV, you could consider an eTron. It’s a touch tighter than a current-gen Q7, 3 seats across will work, but not with any space to spare. It’s also quite a bit lower (can be raised though). The trunk of the eTron is way smaller than that of the Q7 (it’s more Q5 sized).

The eTron is significantly quieter than an X, with a smoother ride yet quite fun in the corners, despite the heavy nose (more terminal understeer than the X). Not as quick to 60, about 1/2-1 sec slower. Tech just works, the software is a bit crap though (however with more features - e.g. carplay). Charges faster than an X (real-life speed, not hypothetical best on V3 superchargers) and, surprisingly, despite whatever you’ll read around here, it uses about as much energy per mile as an X. If you speak German, search for “Bloch Erklaert Audi Etron” on YouTube. They have a thorough consumption test of the eTron vs the Model X that perfectly mirrors my experience with my own.

If any of these two options are appealing to you and you need further opinions or pictures, let me know.

That was a really helpful write up. Thank you for taking the time to do that. We probably need more space than the Etron, but it doesn’t hurt to check it out. We drive between the SF Bay Area and Lake Tahoe a lot and the Etron’s limited range (and only a couple charging stations in-between) might be a deal breaker.

 

[jeffro01]

Wow.... I completely understand where the OP is coming from and am blown away by the still rose colored glasses responses the OP got... Are you people really this blinded by the cult of Elon/Tesla? You're actually telling someone, yeah we know the service sucks and the company is a horrible mess right now but by all means, please buy again...??? Some people learn from touching the hot stove, some don't.

Tesla will fix nothing if people keep buying. The OP is right, the uber credit BS the lack of loaners is enough for me to not buy another one, why would anyone volunteer for such miserable service?

Yeah driving ICE sucks, and sure burning fossil fuels is harmful to the environment, but neither one of those things really have any bearing in this conversation.

Jeff

 

[Richt]

Ymmv. I guess we’ve been lucky. Our model x (and 3) have had good reliability and service has been great. Of course we r not in the Bay Area so thats the main reason.

The MX is a June 2017 build by the way. Main issue early on was adjustment of the rear doors. But none since.

As for other three row SUVs have driven a family members Q7. What a monster. Should be fine for your kids. And u will spend a lifetime figuring out what all the buttons do

 

[john85775]

Regarding that Raven thing. I just test drove one, and decided to get one as an upgrade. Much better range, more comfy seats and that new suspension is like B_U_T_T_E_R!

They have upgraded the standard color to White pearl metalflake and I can now buy a 100 long range for the price I previously paid for my 75X. All around a much better deal than before.

This x1000.

We went from a 2018 X to a 2019 Raven X -- zero issues on the new one, 4x service visits for FWD issues on the old one.

Outside of that, I'd do a minivan - maybe that Chysler Pacifica plug in.

 

[TeeEmCee]

That was a really helpful write up. Thank you for taking the time to do that. We probably need more space than the Etron, but it doesn’t hurt to check it out. We drive between the SF Bay Area and Lake Tahoe a lot and the Etron’s limited range (and only a couple charging stations in-between) might be a deal breaker.

Three words: "Drive the ARC".
Plenty of choice and, for now, free motoring to Tahoe. That and whatever Electrify America stations are being built on that route should make this a perfectly viable option.

If you still care for the EV life, do yourself a favor and check out the eTron. Its real-life range is substantially better than the EPA rating, just like the Tesla's is substantially lower than the EPA rating (I'm talking about normal family driving, not drafting behind semis with the AC off). It regenerates better than the Tesla (both smoother and it manages to recapture more energy), so that further helps close the gab between the two. Other than Autobahn driving, where the Model X's better aerodynamics start to matter (drag is a function of the square of the speed), the two are fairly evenly matched, despite the huge disparity in EPA ratings.

PS: Just noticed your listed location. Try this:

Get a demo vehicle from Livermore Audi and drive over Altamont Pass. On the way down, try the various regen modes (left paddle) and no regen (right paddle). With the automatic regen off (one or two pulls on the right paddle), get a feel for the regen on the brake pedal (i.m.o. it's blended very well with friction braking). Also, toward the end of the east-side grade (where it's about to level out), let it glide without regen. You'll see that it keeps momentum exceptionally well; it has very little drivetrain drag and it glides better than any other car I've ever driven.

 

[Zaxxon]

Wow.... I completely understand where the OP is coming from and am blown away by the still rose colored glasses responses the OP got... Are you people really this blinded by the cult of Elon/Tesla? You're actually telling someone, yeah we know the service sucks and the company is a horrible mess right now but by all means, please buy again...??? Some people learn from touching the hot stove, some don't.

No, that's a misconstruction.

Ymmv. I guess we’ve been lucky.

No, the OP was unlucky. That distinction matters. Your experience is the norm; his is not.

Folks are not suggesting that Tesla is perfect, merely that the overall situation is not as dire as the online picture may paint.

Tesla will fix nothing if people keep buying. The OP is right, the uber credit BS the lack of loaners is enough for me to not buy another one, why would anyone volunteer for such miserable service?

Yes, agree that the uber credit thing sucks. Thankfully, so does Elon Musk. Which is not to say that things for those who have had bad experiences will improve immediately. But it does indicate that this recent Uber credit debacle is not the intended long-term plan.

 

[jboy210]

As someone who owns a BMW X3 I would not look at the X7. And if you need a loaner they seem to only have 3 series sedans at East Bay BMW. Not sure about other dealerships. Also, appointments can have a week or so wait.

Then there is the reliability issues. I had my wife drive my week old BMW 3 (different car) with me having my head down in the passenger foot well, and one foot out the sun roof. I was trying to locate and fix an annoying rattle. Found it after driving 3 miles this way. Screw holding on dash panels were mis-torqued. East Bay said "Rattles, those can be hard to diagnosis. Can you give us the car for 3-4 days"

We also had 2 of our cars need Turbochargers/Wastegates. One under warrant, one at the cost of $7,500.

 

[VikH]

I 100% agree with everything you’re saying. It’ll be a step backwards for sure. I’m just really disappointed in the product after almost 2 years. It’s a lease so no option to trade it for a Raven. Not worth the risk given continued issues and degrading service.

I can understand your hesitation based on your history with Tesla. If your lease is up, is your Model X a 2016? Early VIN? I would not compare an early VIN model X (quality wise) to current cars. Have you considered an extended test drive of a Raven X?

Wow.... I completely understand where the OP is coming from and am blown away by the still rose colored glasses responses the OP got... Are you people really this blinded by the cult of Elon/Tesla? You're actually telling someone, yeah we know the service sucks and the company is a horrible mess right now but by all means, please buy again...??? Some people learn from touching the hot stove, some don't.

Tesla will fix nothing if people keep buying. The OP is right, the uber credit BS the lack of loaners is enough for me to not buy another one, why would anyone volunteer for such miserable service?

Yeah driving ICE sucks, and sure burning fossil fuels is harmful to the environment, but neither one of those things really have any bearing in this conversation.

Jeff

I wouldn't call myself a fanboy, but I would not trade my Model X for gas station visits, yearly maintenance, no autopilot, and lower performance. Also, I am not in CA so I do not have it as bad. I just got a loaner yesterday for same day service. They even did me a favor and didn't damage my car!

 

[Uncle Paul]

Elon is going to address the issue of rental for cars in for service. Perhaps the concern of the OP is going to have a quick solution.
https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-shutting-service-loaner-elon-musk/

 

[Lhshockey24]

Three words: "Drive the ARC".


PS: Just noticed your listed location. Try this:

Get a demo vehicle from Livermore Audi and drive over Altamont Pass. On the way down, try the various regen modes (left paddle) and no regen (right paddle). With the automatic regen off (one or two pulls on the right paddle), get a feel for the regen on the brake pedal (i.m.o. it's blended very well with friction braking). Also, toward the end of the east-side grade (where it's about to level out), let it glide without regen. You'll see that it keeps momentum exceptionally well; it has very little drivetrain drag and it glides better than any other car I've ever driven.

VERY helpful! I was unaware of how built out the charging network was along HWY-80 (we're in Truckee). I'm not sure the E-tron will be big enough for us, because the entire backseat would be taken up by 3 carseats. It's definitely worth a test-drive to stay electric.

Elon is going to address the issue of rental for cars in for service. Perhaps the concern of the OP is going to have a quick solution.
Elon Musk to address Tesla shutting down its service loaner program - Electrek

Re: This service issue, and all the positive comments we have seen about the Raven update, the new one might be worth a test-drive. Ours was built in May 2017...

 

[Zaxxon]

Whatever you decide, good luck. I know my earlier post was heavy on the 'get another X, ' but I recall how soured I was on Volvo by our initial car's excessive service experience. I certainly understand your frustration.

 

[Lhshockey24]

Update:

After test driving an Audi E-Tron for a full afternoon, that definitely isn’t a good option. If you have been spoiled by any Tesla (especially our P100D X) anything else by comparison is so boring.

That poor car drives like a minivan. It was unbelievably slow, lifeless, and felt no different than our old Honda Odyssey. Both my wife and I agreed it was designed for people who are afraid to make the jump to electric if it’s a Tesla, but are okay with a more “normal” car.

I consider myself a highly technical person, but the buttons and screens in the Audi are so overwhelming. We are definitely accustomed to the Tesla layout and dash simplicity. There is no going back on that front.

Hopefully the Raven Model X upgrades have ironed out a lot of the quality kinks. Free supercharging doesn’t hurt either! The Audi level 3 charging is $.99 a minute!!

 

[Zaxxon]

I don't want to pile on, but the Volvo is likely to give you the same reaction. A Tesla it is not, much less a P.

 

[Lhshockey24]

I don't want to pile on, but the Volvo is likely to give you the same reaction. A Tesla it is not, much less a P.

No, I think you’re 100% correct. The Volvo bored us back in 2016 when we tried it out.

 

[Zorg]

Driving a Tesla is a bit of a drug, and no gas car will ever compare. We do the Bay area Truckee drive often and just ordered a raven X.

 

[jboy210]

... The Audi level 3 charging is $.99 a minute!!

Is this at an Audi stealership? And do they serve you a 4 or a 5 course meal while you wait?

 

[Tourman]

Why would you buy anything else? I mean you can at minimum look at the Jaguar iPace, but if you want to trade to an ICE you are just trolling at this point.

 

[Fossil Fool]

I love my MB turbo diesel. I get 43MPG from Phoenix to LA. It's safe, comfortable and fast if you want it to be. Safe car with kids in it.

 

[Lhshockey24]

Is this at an Audi stealership? And do they serve you a 4 or a 5 course meal while you wait?

Electrify America’s new charging infrastructure