An Update to our Supercharging Program

[ecarfan]

Actually, with trends in Solar and Wind power being what they are, I do expect that on a real dollar/inflation compensated basis electricity will be cheaper in ten or fifteen years than it is today. I guess we'll see.

Speaking only for myself, in less than 15 years all the electricity I consume at my house will be free because by then my solar/Powerwall installation will have paid for itself and everything from that point on will be "on the house". Of course I will need a new inverter at some point, but I will likely buy whatever Powerwall with included inverter is available at that time and I know that per kWh of storage it will be much cheaper than it currently is, and currently I think it is a bargain.

But to your point, it seems almost certain that in the future electricity costs are going to decline. Gasoline, highly unlikely.

 

[Dax279]

Actually, with trends in Solar and Wind power being what they are, I do expect that on a real dollar/inflation compensated basis electricity will be cheaper in ten or fifteen years than it is today. I guess we'll see.

I am already down to about 5 cents at the moment, and am not sure how much cheaper things can get.

 

[Cloxxki]

Actually, with trends in Solar and Wind power being what they are, I do expect that on a real dollar/inflation compensated basis electricity will be cheaper in ten or fifteen years than it is today. I guess we'll see.

You'd think so. But power producers do look at oil and gas. And the oil giants are currently extinction all the other players, even potential players such as Yemen. The likes of USA and Norway through overproduction and low prices, Yemen through genocide packaged as a "complicated" "conflict".
Just to say, just because it comes from Mother Nature, will not make energy cheap. Even if you can get it cheap to your home charger, it may come at a crazy premium on the go.

 

[Galve2000]

True, but, then again, we're not the ones who subscribe to this world view:

if only...

 

[BluestarE3]

True, but, then again, we're not the ones who subscribe to this world view:

if only...

True, some people living here feel the same way. I know ex-pats who moved out here years ago who still maintain this view.

 

[iwannam3]

Obviously you haven't been following Tesla for that long. Why don't you go watch the original Supercharger launch event where Elon says using the supercharger network you could travel for free forever on pure sunlight. There's the "claim" (as you put it) that was made....

What happened to the solar powered SC stations that were promised early on? Is there one anywhere? With the merge with Solar City will there be more motivation to install solar? Is Elon going to have to play catch up with gas stations? Oil company announces installation of solar panels at 5,000 gas stations, first step to convert them into EV charging stations?

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

What happened to the solar powered SC stations that were promised early on? Is there one anywhere? With the merge with Solar City will there be more motivation to install solar? Is Elon going to have to play catch up with gas stations? Oil company announces installation of solar panels at 5,000 gas stations, first step to convert them into EV charging stations?

sites with superchargers: Solar power complemented Superchargers

Will there be more motivation to install solar? only when/where it makes financial sense to. Tesla has limited amounts of cash, so when they can get better results with deploying solar panels + batteries to offset electricity costs, they will. Just like how in Q3, and now Q4, they're producing more inventory vehicles instead of just build-to-order, because they can better utilize production efficiencies to offset depreciation discounts. There's no need for a fixed deployment timeline, so don't expect one.

Play catch up to gas stations? That's a false scenario. Gas stations with solar panels mean they might deploy EVSE's. More charging stations benefits Tesla as well as other EV's. That's a supplementary situation, not competitive. And if the gas stations don't deploy EVSE's then at least they're contributing to a cleaner electrical grid, which helps dispel the myth of the coal-powered EV.

 

[whttiger25]

sites with superchargers: Solar power complemented Superchargers

Will there be more motivation to install solar? only when/where it makes financial sense to. Tesla has limited amounts of cash, so when they can get better results with deploying solar panels + batteries to offset electricity costs, they will. Just like how in Q3, and now Q4, they're producing more inventory vehicles instead of just build-to-order, because they can better utilize production efficiencies to offset depreciation discounts. There's no need for a fixed deployment timeline, so don't expect one.

Play catch up to gas stations? That's a false scenario. Gas stations with solar panels mean they might deploy EVSE's. More charging stations benefits Tesla as well as other EV's. That's a supplementary situation, not competitive. And if the gas stations don't deploy EVSE's then at least they're contributing to a cleaner electrical grid, which helps dispel the myth of the coal-powered EV.

I don't get this obsession with installing solar panels at superchargers. The surface area of panels required is SO much larger than the footprint of the station, they won't do anything material. It's just marketing. It just looks and feels nice. Just like a solar roof on a car. I mean come on.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I don't get this obsession with installing solar panels at superchargers. The surface area of panels required is SO much larger than the footprint of the station, they won't do *sugar*. It's just marketing.

Because 24KW of panels-per-site (~120kwh per day per site) * hundreds of sites is peanuts to you? Its primary purpose might be marketing, but they do far more than *sugar*.

 

[TexasEV]

Because 24KW of panels-per-site (~120kwh per day per site) * hundreds of sites is peanuts to you? Its primary purpose might be marketing, but they do far more than *sugar*.

Yeah, if solar panels at a site could only charge 2 cars out if the dozens charging there in a day, I'd say that's peanuts. It would provide nice shade though.

And I say that as someone who has solar panels on his roof.

 

[ohmman]

Yeah, if solar panels at a site could only charge 2 cars out if the dozens charging there in a day, I'd say that's peanuts. It would provide nice shade though.

And I say that as someone who has solar panels on his roof.

The last time I was at Gilroy, I noted that the panels weren't even attached to the grid. But, as you mention, I really enjoyed the shade.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Yeah, if solar panels at a site could only charge 2 cars out if the dozens charging there in a day, I'd say that's peanuts. It would provide nice shade though.

And I say that as someone who has solar panels on his roof.

Hmmm, I guess we have a difference of opinion then. In a distributed grid scenario, every little bit helps, as some rooftops just can't support enough panels to cover the owners uses.

 

[Haxster]

I don't get this obsession with installing solar panels at superchargers. The surface area of panels required is SO much larger than the footprint of the station, they won't do anything material. It's just marketing. It just looks and feels nice. Just like a solar roof on a car. I mean come on.

I can imagine a gas station with a small oil pump moving up and down as if it were actually doing something useful...

 

[WannabeOwner]

it seems almost certain that in the future electricity costs are going to decline. Gasoline, highly unlikely

Sadly I disagree. My expectation is that demand for Gas will fall, because Renewables will be built and then Supply will exceed Demand and price will fall - which will make it harder to support the case for Renewables (here's hoping that price of Renewables falls enough to still be competitive - maybe ... (MAYBE? I'll not hold my breath!)) governments will decide to continue to subsidise Renewables because of their ability to reduce balance-of-payments deficit with other nations and/or reduce in pollution / health care, but all of those seem things so far below the horizon for the Average Voter as to be invisible to them, and likely to be ignored by politicians ).

Of course if governments are brave enough to keep raising taxes on Gas, or Carbon, then gas prices will rise - over here in the UK we really really try to do that year-on-year, but every time there is a huge pushback from the haulage industry about it making them uncompetitive; decent (affordable or government-subsidies) EVs for delivery / haulage vehicles would help a lot - Hurry Up Elon!!. (There's an article in today's UK Sunday papers about our government have successfully forced some cleanup of Diesel on Cars and Vans, but have done nothing, yet, to penalise (Diesel) Heavy Goods Vehicles)

Because 24KW of panels-per-site (~120kwh per day per site) * hundreds of sites is peanuts to you? Its primary purpose might be marketing, but they do far more than *sugar*.

I take a different view: Stick the solar panels wherever they are most productive and cheapest to install, and then just use the Grid to move the power to where it is needed right now. Sticking Solar panels on a roof over a charging station, where no roof is actually needed, is an unnecessary cost. I do see photos of some charging stations in USA with roof cover, so maybe it is needed for shade in some places? but I reckon a SC required-roof, worldwide, is a rare thing. if a roof is required / available then cladding it with solar panels makes sense - for any roof space, with reasonable orientation to the sun, It is income-generated, or electricity-cost saved, for the property owner, but not worth building a roof just to put solar panels on where there is already a suitable space available elsewhere

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I take a different view: Stick the solar panels wherever they are most productive and cheapest to install, and then just use the Grid to move the power to where it is needed right now. Sticking Solar panels on a roof over a charging station, where no roof is actually needed, is an unnecessary cost. I do see photos of some charging stations in USA with roof cover, so maybe it is needed for shade in some places? but I reckon a SC required-roof, worldwide, is a rare thing. if a roof is required / available then cladding it with solar panels makes sense - for any roof space, with reasonable orientation to the sun, It is income-generated, or electricity-cost saved, for the property owner, but not worth building a roof just to put solar panels on where there is already a suitable space available elsewhere

I've been saying for years that Tesla should start building solar farms. They could even allow people to invest in them and the energy production would offset their energy usage. I've been on the waiting list for a solar farm in my county for nearly two years. In the meantime, I participate in Windsource and all of my energy usage is offset by wind energy produced elsewhere in the state.

Now that the deal with SolarCity in going to go through , maybe the solar farm idea will happen. I think it would be great PR and it would offset some of the Supercharging energy consumed.

 

[WannabeOwner]

They could even allow people to invest in them and the energy production would offset their energy usage

We have something along those lines (much smaller scale) over here:

Subsidy is available for new roof-mounted solar panels. All "exported" electricity is at a controlled, preferential (maybe!) rate (so called "Feed In Tariff (FIT)")
Of course that doesn't mean that everyone can afford solar panels ...
An Organisation (probably used to sell Double Glazing a few years ago!!) knocks on your door and offers you a deal: they buy and install the solar panels, they get whatever the government installation grant is and they also get the FIT repayments. You, the householder, gets whatever "free" electricity that you use (on sunny days).

Great thing about the FITs is that the export is unmetered, its just assumed to be "50% of the generated power from the panels" (which is metered), so ideally you will use 100% of the generated power, AND get the 50% FIT payment too

I have no idea how well that works in practice, but there are plenty of solar panels on houses in "poor" areas ...

 

[whttiger25]

Because 24KW of panels-per-site (~120kwh per day per site) * hundreds of sites is peanuts to you? Its primary purpose might be marketing, but they do far more than *sugar*.

120kwh charges 2 cars. So not far more than you know what

My point is they don't do much to alleviate max demand charges or solve throttling issues...they don't do anything for Tesla customers. They are a nice place to increase the overall solar footprint of the world but people need to realize they have no material impact on the supercharging experience or financial health of Tesla. Thus they shouldn't be a higher priority than growing the actual supercharger network and dealing with the numerous reliability issues superchargers are facing

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

120kwh charges 2 cars. So not far more than you know what

My point is they don't do much to alleviate max demand charges or solve throttling issues...they don't do anything for Tesla customers. They are a nice place to increase the overall solar footprint of the world but people need to realize they have no material impact on the supercharging experience or financial health of Tesla. Thus they shouldn't be a higher priority than growing the actual supercharger network and dealing with the numerous reliability issues superchargers are facing

That's a matter of perspective. Solar panels are like ion engines, they don't produce much instantaneous power, but they'll continue to provide power/thrust for long past the point where chemical engines run out of fuel.

That 120kwh is per day; 840kwh per week; 43.68 Mwh per year; 1,092 Mwh before the solar panel warranty ends. That would be 18,250 cars charged. That might be only 1% of all the cars charged by a single supercharger site, but I don't see it as peanuts.

But that isn't to say that I disagree with you about prioritizing more supercharger sites instead of solar panels at the moment. I do think there's more important things to spend their money on besides solar panels at the moment, but with the buffalo, NY solar manufacturing plant now in Tesla's hands, it wouldn't be out of line to start deploying some panels onto some supercharger sites (along with batteries to mitigate their peak electrical consumption rates).

 

[TexasEV]

I think we have a different definition of peanuts.

 

[JClu]

I think we have a different definition of peanuts.

Oh, were we not talking about Charlie Brown and Snoopy?