An Update to our Supercharging Program

[NOLA_Mike]

Hardly. They needed to entice early adopters. I would not have bought a Tesla had they not had the unlimited option.

It's just another step in the evolution from early adopters to mainstream. No way the "free lunch" model could work at scale - too many people take unfair advantage of the chargers (local charging just because it's free).

Now we'll see who really can and can't charge at home. If you really can't, then you use the supercharger and pay for what you use.

In my area I think $0.20/kWh would be fair. I pay ~$0.11/kWh at home so it incentivizes me to charge at home yet a 60 kWh fill up at the supercharger would still only cost $12 (cheaper than gas).

 

[GTIceman]

I personally know three people who put down $1000 deposits on an M3 primarily so they could supercharge for free and never pay for gas. They all live in apartment complexes and will charge primarily for local travel.

As an apt dweller who has an S and a 3 reserved I do know people who are doing this. People who chose to do that and are only local will still get a fair amount of free travel based on the earlier calculation.

That being said I am moving into a complex next month with 12 charging stations that allow residents to charge for free. Until then I have used the supercharger to charge 2x locally. There are plenty of chargers around the city and destination chargers. I never intended to use the supercharger as my sole charger around town. If I am out at the mall near the supercharger I do use it. If it is busy I might do a 15 top off then move to whatever I am doing or just not stop. I feared an overrun of supercharger abuse when the 3 was released if they did offer a free supercharger option.

 

[GTIceman]

Folks, supercharging is very clearly tied to the car in your purchase agreement, just as much as your seats, paint, pano roof and every other enumerated feature are. Tesla can't change this stuff retroactively. They can't take the supercharging from your buyer any more than they can take the wheels. Supercharging will be transferrable for the life of the car.

I agree if sold via private seller. If sold via Tesla this can totally be taken away.

 

[robby]

I agree if sold via private seller. If sold via Tesla this can totally be taken away.

Yeah, good point. If Tesla reclaims ownership, they can do whatever they want.

 

[BluestarE3]

I personally know three people who put down $1000 deposits on an M3 primarily so they could supercharge for free and never pay for gas. They all live in apartment complexes and will charge primarily for local travel.

Tesla never said the Model 3 will have free Supercharging, just that it will be Supercharging-capable in terms of included hardware. They can still use Superchargers for local travel if they wish. But if the nearest Supercharger isn't located nearby (some are in urban centers, but most are along highways), they'd probably opt to use someone else's charging station that's conveniently located for their day-to-day refueling needs instead, and that station likely would be fee-based as well.

 

[sorka]

Should have made it a time based fee to stop people from hogging stalls after the charge is completed.

I'd be willing to pay an extra fee, even with my free for life car, if I didn't move within some reasonable time after charging was complete....like say 5 minutes.

 

[sorka]

The software in the car can already tell when and where you are Supercharging so it could be a completely software based solution.

Not only that, the supercharger stalls have no idea the identity of the vehicle plugged in. Tesla can see what supercharger stalls are being used and what their charge rate is, but they have no idea what cars are plugged into them. Supercharger authorization is strictly done from the car's perspective. If another brand of car plugged in and did the correct handshake, it could charge too. There is even the potential for someone to hack their tesla and add credits. The car will have to keep track of it's own authorization and credit balance because it might not be connected to the internet when it plugs in and starts charging.

Also, imagine that you run out of credit and you try to recharge your car but your car is offline for whatever reason(say it's a supercharger that isn't in the AT&T coverage map). They'd probably have to allow you to charge if you're offline even if you're car's charging credit was 0 because they wouldn't have a way of telling your car that you'd paid for more charging credit until you were back online. They'd end up stranding cars if they required online access to confirm or transfer new charging credits.

 

[sorka]

Tesla knows who you are when you connect. That is, they read the car's information. Try calling them from a Supercharger when there is a charging problem, and you will learn that they know what car it is and what stall it is.

Totally not true. I've done this over a half dozen times and each time they can tell me which stalls are being used and what the charge levels are at, but they can't tell what car is plugged in where. They couldn't even tell me which stall I was plugged into. I asked more than once why and they told me the stalls don't know the identity of the cars plugged into them.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I personally know three people who put down $1000 deposits on an M3 primarily so they could supercharge for free and never pay for gas. They all live in apartment complexes and will charge primarily for local travel.

Then those 3 people were buying a tesla for the wrong reasons. If the free supercharging was a triggering factor, then they should've already been dissuaded back in May when Musk said that supercharging was NOT going to be free for model 3: Elon Musk: Tesla Model 3 owners won’t get free Supercharging for life without paying extra

If the lack of free supercharging is all that it takes to dissuade them from getting a model 3, then they're not ready to own a model 3 yet. I couldn't justify a model S, even with supercharger access, so I held off until the model 3 was available. No shame in that.

 

[sorka]

I don't believe the resale will be affected. The notice does say "Current Owners" Thus what I read is that the Free forever is not transferable.

Just to be clear, are you saying you believe supercharger for life will not follow our current legacy cars and that if we sold them that the new owners would have to pay for supercharger access?????

 

[Fiver]

I'd wager In the future CPO Tesla's will have the unlimited supercharging removed when re-sold as CPO's. This will over time reduce the number of cars that hog the chargers further.

/edit No idea about private sales though, they probably would stick with unlimited for that.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

At $0.32 / kWh, a 300 wh / mile tesla will get you 28 miles on $2.70. That would make $0.32 really hard to justify compared to gasoline. I pay 1/3rd of that when I charge at home plus the additional savings I get on the rest of my household electricity usage by paying $0.11 / kWh un-tiered.

That's some bad math there. CmdrThor cited a guess of $0.25 / kwh, a difference of 33% from your $0.32/kwh. At 25 cents /kwh and 300wh/mile, your tesla will get over 36.7 miles on $2.75. A pretty good mileage for a 5000lbs car. The model 3 is supposed to be more efficient.

 

[Stealth MD]

Very sad to hear this news. With the other car companies approaching very close to S/X (range and performance, and soon full self driving), it will only be a matter of time until they surpass Tesla. The supercharger network is just another charging network now. 400 KwH free per year? That's pathetic, especially since Tesla's vehicles already are at a premium price. There's very little incentive to stick with Tesla rather than go with the other luxury brands, especially since they offer much luxury features at comparable prices.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the self driving features require some sort of paid subscription in the future (on top of the cost of the hardware) when it actually goes live.

So much for "free forever"...........................

 

[sorka]

Tesla never said the Model 3 will have free Supercharging, just that it will be Supercharging-capable in terms of included hardware. They can still use Superchargers for local travel if they wish. But if the nearest Supercharger isn't located nearby (some are in urban centers, but most are along highways), they'd probably opt to use someone else's charging station that's conveniently located for their day-to-day refueling needs instead, and that station likely would be fee-based as well.

Yup, and they all knew that but figured they'd put a deposit down anyways assuming they'd be able to by all you can eat for $2500 like you could with the S. If they don't provide and all you can eat option for less than $3K, they'll call cancel their reservations.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Starting January 2017, All New Teslas Will Only Get 400 kWh Of Annual Free Supercharging, Small Fee Beyond That

From Press Release:
"We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center."

Thanks for the link, but jgs addressed it better. AMPd was probably being sarcastic, and I missed the tone and took the bait.

 

[sorka]

Then those 3 people were buying a tesla for the wrong reasons. If the free supercharging was a triggering factor, then they should've already been dissuaded back in May when Musk said that supercharging was NOT going to be free for model 3: Elon Musk: Tesla Model 3 owners won’t get free Supercharging for life without paying extra

If the lack of free supercharging is all that it takes to dissuade them from getting a model 3, then they're not ready to own a model 3 yet. I couldn't justify a model S, even with supercharger access, so I held off until the model 3 was available. No shame in that.

Nope, they're still holding out hoping that an unlimited option for $2500, like it was for the S60, will be offered. If it isn't, they will cancel their reservation. And yes, I agree with you 100% that they were reserving for the wrong reason and I told them so myself including the the one co-worker here at work who just bought an S60 and lives in an apartment.

 

[Gen3]

How can you say this is nice? 400kWh is a very limited amount, this is a step back in every way

If there were no lines at superchargers and tesla had the capital to keep building extensively, then unlimited would be great. But I'd rather pay to charge when I want to than wait for a free charge and be delayed for an undetermined period.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Nope, they're still holding out hoping that an unlimited option for $2500, like it was for the S60, will be offered. If it isn't, they will cancel their reservation. And yes, I agree with you 100% that they were reserving for the wrong reason and I told them so myself including the the one co-worker here at work who just bought an S60 and lives in an apartment.

I'm curious, what would they buy instead? In theory, whatever they'd buy instead would cost more to "refuel" and not be as good (assuming the Model 3 is all that and a bag of chips).

Mike

 

[KublaConn]

Two thoughts popped into my head upon reading this announcement:

Considering the dates given as the parameters of this "offer", one of them being exactly the end of Q1 next year, I guess we can refine our specualtions as to when the 100D option will pop-up in the design studio. What do you think?

And...

Sure, this will most likely help cull the supercharging ranks of those locals who have the capability to charge at home but give in to their gluttonous natures and opt to suck up free electrons anyway, but, will it also decrease the number of people berating locals, or at least soften the moral high ground upon which the beraters make their stand, if said locals are reduced to the ones who do so out of necessity rather than greed and they are now ponying up ducats for those electrons? If one's living situation doesn't facilitate overnight charging at one's abode, there's a very good possibility that one's local SpC will still be the most viable option, after all, if you're paying for the electrons, why not get them as fast as you can, no? So, whose "but I paid for it" is going to trump the other's in that situation? I suspect an appeal to the "original intent of the network" will be forthcoming, in the "but I deserve this more than you" wars.

 

[larmor]

Very sad to hear this news. With the other car companies approaching very close to S/X (range and performance, and soon full self driving), it will only be a matter of time until they surpass Tesla. The supercharger network is just another charging network now. 400 KwH free per year? That's pathetic, especially since Tesla's vehicles already are at a premium price. There's very little incentive to stick with Tesla rather than go with the other luxury brands, especially since they offer much luxury features at comparable prices.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the self driving features require some sort of paid subscription in the future (on top of the cost of the hardware) when it actually goes live.

So much for "free forever"...........................

Not sure where to start with this-- which car companies have a premium all electric sedan/cuv with otherwordly acceleration? Like others, locals using SC is not cool when you are traveling and want a quick charge and on your way.