An Update to our Supercharging Program

[JSkrehot]

It sucks though for the owners that have no other charging options, which we know are out there, even if it's just a few.
I also think 400 kWh is not enough annually. They should raise that to at least a 1,000 kWh annually.

That does not make much sense. They get 400 kWh annually and can still use the SC network as their "charging option," they will just have to pay for driving now, they will still have the same SC's avail to them. Tesla has not yet said what that price will be yet. Also, I would expect the price to drop a little after April 1, 2017 to account for this in the Model S and X. Also, if you can afford a $80-130,000, you can afford the few hundred dollars a year in electricity to drive it. Tesla has not taken their "charging options" away. Please explain why they can not pay to use the SC Network over their allotted 400 kWh, while other Tesla owners pay to charge at home overnight?

 

[sorka]

Stops ppl from abusing the superchargers, and hopefully the part about building out the network even more/faster wasn't just fluff.

I wouldn't be surprised to see enforcement of the "for long distance travel" only policy for cars sold after they change the language early last year.

 

[sdorn]

But EM said it would not be a revenue source.

I think he said "profit center". Definitely not the same thing.

 

[hmmm]

This was needed, one question will unlimited go with the vehicle or the owner? Clearly it is setup based on vehicle order date and or delivery but for those of us who are here already I would very much like it if I replace the S in the future with a Tesla vehicle to be grandfathered in. We keep on being told how we are paying for all the model 3's, etc...

^this.

Is it attached to the vehicle/transferable?

 

[auger]

Just because for profit networks like Chargepoint and Blink charge $0.49 / kWh doesn't mean Tesla will. Tesla clearly states the charge will be less than the cost of gas. $0.49 / kWh equates to a nearly $4 gallon of gas depending on your efficiency assumptions. I think Tesla will still bake some of the cost of the Supercharger network into the price of the car and therefore charge a little less for charging.

It should be far less than the cost of gas--more like the local cost of electricity.

This keeps the one of the primary advantages of owning an electric car and eliminates the advantage of people using it just because it's cheaper than charging at home.

 

[Max*]

Also, I would expect the price to drop a little after April 1, 2017 to account for this in the Model S and X

Why? Tesla is a for-profit business, they're not a charity. They're not selling you the car + 20% markup. They're selling you the price at a fixed cost, this way, they can have a higher markup/profit for themselves.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

^this.

Is it attached to the vehicle/transferable?

"For the life of the car"

 

[sorka]

Tesla is doomed if it attracts Model 3 buyers intending to game the supercharger network and never pay for "gas". A few weirdos with MS is not impacting Tesla. An inexpensive EV is another situation entirely.

400kWh is a bit stingy. But I'm glad they are being firm about future costs and owner behavior.

I personally know three people who put down $1000 deposits on an M3 primarily so they could supercharge for free and never pay for gas. They all live in apartment complexes and will charge primarily for local travel.

 

[Max*]

more like the local cost of electricity.

You think Tesla won't include some markup on it?

 

[Max*]

"For the life of the car"

Nope. For the life of your Tesla are the exact words.

Once it's no longer your Tesla, it doesn't say what'll happen. My car vin XYZ3, I sell it, it becomes your car vin XYZ3. Still the same Tesla (good), no longer mine (bad).

They chose the words very carefully. It doesn't say for the life of the Tesla.

How much does it cost to use the Superchargers?
Supercharging is free for the life of your Tesla vehicle, once the Supercharger option is enabled.

 

[Cloxxki]

It should be far less than the cost of gas--more like the local cost of electricity.

This keeps the one of the primary advantages of owning an electric car and eliminates the advantage of people using it just because it's cheaper than charging at home.

Why? Does GM/VW have its own pumps were you get petrol at cost? There is a good amountof infrastructure to build and maintain. And on the lower cost per mile, say a $0.05 markup per mile (would that be unfair to cover costs?) can be a significant markup over bare energy cost. Still way cheaper than independent chargers probably, so little reason to complain for Tesla drivers. You pay a bit more for a premium car and BEV market leadership, you save some on cost per additional mile.
Home charging being cheaper than on the go might help rolling out the home charging network, demand for solar panels/roofs, power walls, etc, etc. All good. Electricity should never be perceived as "free of charge" (inevitable pun).

 

[AMPd]

Nope. For the life of your Tesla are the exact words.

Once it's no longer your Tesla, it doesn't say what'll happen. My car vin XYZ3, I sell it, it becomes your car vin XYZ3. Still the same Tesla (good), no longer mine (bad).

They chose the words very carefully. It doesn't say for the life of the Tesla.

Yeah there's definitely no room to think you can get grandfathered in when buying a new model S, after Jan 1st.

 

[robby]

ISTR someone (Elon probably, it's always Elon even when it's not, he's kind of like Mark Twain that way) from Tesla saying (tweeting, etc) quite early on in the history of Supercharging that their current model was free-for-life but that they expected to reevaluate after they had X00,000 or maybe X,000,000 cars on the road. Assuming I'm remembering accurately and that the quote was O(10^5) and not O(10^6), that's not "failure", it's "executing to [announced] plan".

Unfortunately I can't put my finger on the quote, but maybe someone else can. (The thread is snowballing fast, maybe someone already has. :-/)

It was JB Straubel in his Future of Transportation keynote. Their thinking at the time was an unlimited option for the first million cars.

Check out 13:25:

 

[McRat]

Then you just eliminated the possibility of Tesla ever selling another car to condo and apt dwellers, which in many parts of the country (and world) are the majority of the population.

I haven't rented in many years. Do modern apartments have gas stations with free gasoline? Or do you leave the parking lot, then go buy some?

How is that different?

 

[sorka]

For the gas savings estimate on the design studio Tesla uses 21 mpg as the efficiency of a comparable vehicle (and they list a Mercedes S550 as an example) and $2.70 per gallon average for premium gas over the next 5 years. Using those numbers we can assume in the US at least the cost will be less than $0.32 per kWh. My guess would be $0.25.

At $0.32 / kWh, a 300 wh / mile tesla will get you 28 miles on $2.70. That would make $0.32 really hard to justify compared to gasoline. I pay 1/3rd of that when I charge at home plus the additional savings I get on the rest of my household electricity usage by paying $0.11 / kWh un-tiered.

 

[sorka]

400kWh hours is very small to support long distance trips. A 1000 mile road trip is 4-day weekend!

If Tesla needs to stop abuse of local supercharging, & I agree they SHOULD, geo-fence the owners home, and only permit free supercharging OUTSIDE of a 200 mile radius.

200 miles is far too big a radius. 60 miles would be enough of a deterrent.

 

[Plug it in]

I was thinking that as well but Tesla would likely consider a new purchase

I got a answer back from Tesla.
I asked them: I am leasing my car, if I buy it after the 2 years are up will I still get free supercharging?

Thank you for contactlng Tesla Technical Support.

I am glad to help you with this. Of course you will still receive free supercharger, any vehicle sold before January 2017 will continue to receive those services for free.

 

[sorka]

It's simply admitting failure on the all-you-can-eat option.

Hardly. They needed to entice early adopters. I would not have bought a Tesla had they not had the unlimited option.

 

[hmmm]

I got a answer back from Tesla.
I asked them: I am leasing my car, if I buy it after the 2 years are up will I still get free supercharging?

Thank you for contactlng Tesla Technical Support.

I am glad to help you with this. Of course you will still receive free supercharger, any vehicle sold before January 2017 will continue to receive those services for free.

Note that it doesn't say sold *to you*...which makes it sound like it's transferable...

 

[robby]

In most cases Tesla wouldn't even be involved in the purchase of a lease.
If BoA is the leasing institution and you purchase it from them, I doubt Tesla would know about it.

I was thinking that as well but Tesla would likely consider a new purchase

Do we know if the free and unlimited supercharges will be tied to a VIN or to an owner? Will grandfathered vehicles still receive the benefit if the vehicle is sold?

^this.

Is it attached to the vehicle/transferable?

Nope. For the life of your Tesla are the exact words.

Once it's no longer your Tesla, it doesn't say what'll happen. My car vin XYZ3, I sell it, it becomes your car vin XYZ3. Still the same Tesla (good), no longer mine (bad).

They chose the words very carefully. It doesn't say for the life of the Tesla.

Folks, supercharging is very clearly tied to the car in your purchase agreement, just as much as your seats, paint, pano roof and every other enumerated feature are. Tesla can't change this stuff retroactively. They can't take the supercharging from your buyer any more than they can take the wheels. Supercharging will be transferrable for the life of the car.