An Update to our Supercharging Program

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Just to be clear, are you saying you believe supercharger for life will not follow our current legacy cars and that if we sold them that the new owners would have to pay for supercharger access?????

No. Another poster just confirmed that legacy cars will retain their free-for-life access: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1819829/

 

[sorka]

Why would a Tesla reduce the price of the car? They're not taking out SC out of the car. The hardware is still there. The software adjustments they'll have to make to keep cars compatible with the SC network is still there. 400kwh of electricity is still provided annually, which should cover most people's SC needs.

Why should customers get 1000kwh free instead of 400?

No but the price of unlimited charging is built into the price of the car. If they don't increase the price of the car, then the upfront cost of the car will be reduced by the cost of supercharger access .... i.e. decoupled. If they upfront cost stays the same on 1/1/17, then they are effectively raising the purchase price of the car.

 

[jgs]

Very sad to hear this news. With the other car companies approaching very close to S/X (range and performance, and soon full self driving), it will only be a matter of time until they surpass Tesla. The supercharger network is just another charging network now. 400 KwH free per year? That's pathetic, especially since Tesla's vehicles already are at a premium price. There's very little incentive to stick with Tesla rather than go with the other luxury brands, especially since they offer much luxury features at comparable prices.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the self driving features require some sort of paid subscription in the future (on top of the cost of the hardware) when it actually goes live.

So much for "free forever"...........................

Seriously? If Tesla's value-add is limited to "free gas" then they've lost. Next thing you know, they're going to have to throw in free lawn furniture and a set of tickets to the game.

Please remind me what competitor is actually providing a competitor to S or X that I can buy today? Or even next year? What is the other charging network to which Tesla's is "just another"?

 

[dhcp]

Very sad to hear this news. With the other car companies approaching very close to S/X (range and performance, and soon full self driving), it will only be a matter of time until they surpass Tesla. The supercharger network is just another charging network now. 400 KwH free per year? That's pathetic, especially since Tesla's vehicles already are at a premium price. There's very little incentive to stick with Tesla rather than go with the other luxury brands, especially since they offer much luxury features at comparable prices.

I don't think that's fair - you are assuming that Tesla is going to be stagnant while the others catch up. While anything is possible, I think Tesla has been leading a lot of the luxury electric market and while others will certainly start to catch up, I think it's unfair to assume Tesla won't move forward too.

I'm also not aware of any other luxury brands (or any brands) that have any kind of SuperCharger network, for fee or not. If you have your BMW electric car and want to drive across the country, help me understand your charging network - or are you just going to shopping malls and using the L2 chargers and waiting for 4 hours to top off?

I am curious as to how Tesla will police this, do you buy credits that are saved in the car's CPU that are debited when you use the units? Or will they go to a card-system like ChargePoint?

While the end of the free charging won't affect me for a few years while I squeeze life out of my 85D, I don't think it's that big of a deal. As someone earlier in the thread mentioned, if the idea of "free electricity forever" was the make/break for your buying a $100k+ car, then you may have been overextending yourself. Don't get the carbon trim or get the 19" wheels instead of the 21" wheels and you will save a lifetime of charging credits.

If every extra 1000 miles away from home is only going to you $30-$40, is that really outrageous enough to take to the street with pitchforks and fire as some of you seem to imply? I could save that much just by not ordering everything "with cheese".

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Please remind me what competitor is actually providing a competitor to S or X that I can buy today? Or even next year? What is the other charging network to which Tesla's is "just another"?

Exactly - there's no doubt in my mind the Tesla Supercharger Network is now looked at with envy at the other auto manufacturers who are starting to "get it". There are no others that offer anything close to it - for free or for charge.

 

[sorka]

That's some bad math there. CmdrThor cited a guess of $0.25 / kwh, a difference of 33% from your $0.32/kwh. At 25 cents /kwh and 300wh/mile, your tesla will get over 36.7 miles on $2.75. A pretty good mileage for a 5000lbs car. The model 3 is supposed to be more efficient.

I was quoting the $0.32 given as a price that would not make the electric vs gasoline worth the compromise. There was no math at all for that aspect of the claim.

For the math portion of my example, you're right, it was bad. I said 28 miles when I should have said 28.15 miles

But you missed post:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1819034/

Go back and read that and tell me if you ever think you'll get charging for less than $0.32 / kWh.

 

[TexasEV]

I personally know three people who put down $1000 deposits on an M3 primarily so they could supercharge for free and never pay for gas. They all live in apartment complexes and will charge primarily for local travel.

No one ever said the Model 3 would have free supercharging.

 

[pilotSteve]

Not only that, the supercharger stalls have no idea the identity of the vehicle plugged in. Tesla can see what supercharger stalls are being used and what their charge rate is, but they have no idea what cars are plugged into them.

if Tesla can geofence my garage door they can figure out what my supercharging account status is. Come on!

 

[sorka]

I'm curious, what would they buy instead? In theory, whatever they'd buy instead would cost more to "refuel" and not be as good (assuming the Model 3 is all that and a bag of chips).

Mike

In all of their cases, they'll stick with their current 10+ year old cars that are paid off.

 

[sorka]

This makes no sense at all. I've always said if unlimited Supercharging were priced into the car, it would be the same price across the fleet.

Model 3 is more efficient, so it will go further per unit of charge. Less efficient vehicles will have to charge more often - so it will look something like X, S, then 3 as far as how much is paid. Since they're giving 400kWh per year, it might look something like (numbers approximate):

Model X @ 340Wh/mi: 1176 miles
Model S @ 310Wh/mi: 1290 miles
Model 3 @ 280Wh/mi: 1428 miles

Efficiency is what causes a reduction in cost, just like with gasoline. Imagine if the unit cost of gasoline changed based on the MSRP of the vehicle. Instead, the unit cost stays the same and the incentive is towards efficiency.

But the 3 will charge slower per mile due to the taper of the smaller battery. I'm sure part of the plan to charge is to keep congestion down. Perhaps the charge should be based on time spent charging rather than cost / kWh hour.

Those that manage their SOC more closely will benefit from arriving with the lowest SOC possible and will charge only as much as needed to get the the next SC (with a reasonable buffer).

 

[MP3Mike]

But the 3 will charge slower per mile due to the taper of the smaller battery

We don't know that, Tesla could have made chemistry/cooling changes in the batteries that will go in the Model 3 so that it can Supercharge up to 90% faster. (The newer batteries already have less taper than the older ones.)

 

[KublaConn]

I could save that much just by not ordering everything "with cheese".

Perish the thought! A life without cheese is NOT worth living!

 

[sorka]

An Update to Our Supercharging Program

"our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center"

Which is different from "not a revenue source" but that's probably what @AMPd meant.

Right, because once you factor in costs for:

• Capital (equipment)
• Construction.
• Parking lot leasing
• Tesla Supercharger deal makers / staff
• Maintenance/Repair.
• Support
• Cost per kWh

There's no way that $0.11 / kWh to Tesla is only going to cost that to us. It will more likely be quadruple that and they'll still be able to claim it's not profitable. Add one more to that list and call it:

• Expansion

And they can collect whatever they want and as long as it's used to expand the network, it won't be a profit center.

 

[BluestarE3]

Yup, and they all knew that but figured they'd put a deposit down anyways assuming they'd be able to by all you can eat for $2500 like you could with the S. If they don't provide and all you can eat option for less than $3K, they'll call cancel their reservations.

Yes, unfortunately that's how some people view it: Supercharging = free fuel. And free anything must be good even if you can't readily take advantage of it. Even here in "Tesla Country", the nearest Supercharger station is over 20 miles away from me, so even if Supercharging were free unlimited for the Model 3, I realistically would have to rely instead on other public charging stations around town for refueling if I did not have the option to charge at home.

 

[sorka]

No one ever said the Model 3 would have free supercharging.

No, but they were assuming they're be an all you can eat option for something comparable to the $2500 S60 option and they're holding their reservation until they know. As the M3 production and final pricing is made known, if there isn't an all you can eat reasonably priced SC option, they'll cancel.

 

[shokunin]

Very sad to hear this news. With the other car companies approaching very close to S/X (range and performance, and soon full self driving), it will only be a matter of time until they surpass Tesla. The supercharger network is just another charging network now.

What other (non hypercar) EVs are available that compare to the Tesla in performance, range, and autonomous driving? There's a lot of press releases, which is nothing but marketing BS until they're available for sale. A paper launch is not competition.

Who else has a coast-to-coast long distance DC fast charging network? Who else is providing coast-to-coast free charging?

 

[sorka]

if Tesla can geofence my garage door they can figure out what my supercharging account status is. Come on!

They for sure could tell which supercharger you'r eat if you're car is connected to the internet but not which stall. And if you're out of AT&T's range and not hotspotting, they can't even tell that.

 

[akira3d]

I'm finding it amusing how Tesla announcements have a way of stirring a range of emotions. I had been feeling somewhat bummed that I bought my X when I did (though I wouldn't go as far as saying it was buyer's remorse) since I took delivery just a month ahead of the announcement of fully autonomous hardware. I had a mixed reaction to folding flat 5 seat configuration as I would likely have seriously considered it over the 6 seat version, but I do like the design of the middle seats (and having three rows).

Today's announcement made me feel good again about being an early-ish adopter.

Sure it may disappoint those who have not yet bought a Tesla, but at least Musk was up front about the Model 3 not having free access to Supercharging.

Reading through some of the comments, I'm surprised how many people would buy an EV without having a home charging solution. I personally went solar years before I even considered owning an EV. I would never have considered buying any nice car prior to owning a home with a garage, but I realize that not many can afford to own a home in the Bay Area or Southern California.

 

[sorka]

We don't know that, Tesla could have made chemistry/cooling changes in the batteries that will go in the Model 3 so that it can Supercharge up to 90% faster. (The newer batteries already have less taper than the older ones.)

Sure, we don't know that for sure, but do you want to put some money on it? I'll even give you 2:1 odds

 

[KublaConn]

No, but they were assuming they're be an all you can eat option for something comparable to the $2500 S60 option and they're holding their reservation until they know. As the M3 production and final pricing is made known, if there isn't an all you can eat reasonably priced SC option, they'll cancel.

Sounds like a touch of insanity, to me. So, exactly who is this other car company that's offering free fuel for life from their continent-wide supercharging network that they're going to switch to, instead of purchasing the M3 that they have reserved?