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Watts Son
Member
I would think this is what's in the pipeline. Like Apple, you will have a Tesla profile keeping track of your KwH. Seems far simpler than using charge cards at the meter like ICE. Although if Tesla starts sharing the SC stations then the pay as you go would probably be needed.
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
This seems like a reasonable solution to crowded supercharger locations, but the immediate implementation seems a bit heavy handed and it seems a bit harsh for lightly used locations at the edges of the supercharger network. You often need a full charge at such locations to make it to your next charging location and some of these locations require more than a five minute walk to get a decent meal. The app also tends to do a poor job predicting when a 100% charge will be completed and sometimes cell phone coverage is spotty at places like this so it's hard to tell when the car is done.
This wouldn't be an issue if the original 2015 supercharger map that covered all major interstates was completed. But it's not. And it feels a bit like Tesla arbitrarily changing the rules without holding up their end of the bargain.
3s-a-charm
Active Member
Instead of Range Anxiety I'm going to have Supercharging Overage Anxiety now... "Hurry up and eat, kids... the cars at 95% and closing in on 100% fast!" 
I think it sets an upper bound on that - you obviously want the idle fee to be higher than the normal charging fees.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
Unless the current trend of throttling continues, in which case you have plenty of time.Instead of Range Anxiety I'm going to have Supercharging Overage Anxiety now... "Hurry up and eat, kids... the cars at 95% and closing in on 100% fast!"
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Instead of Range Anxiety I'm going to have Supercharging Overage Anxiety now... "Hurry up and eat, kids... the cars at 95% and closing in on 100% fast!"
Remember, Tesla never promised free parking. The idea is to not treat it as a parking spot, but rather as a charging station, and to move the car even if your activity is not finished yet (I'm pretty sure some plug-in owners already do this in congested charging spots). There is the argument of leaving your phone number, but then if you are more than a 5 minute walk away, you would be inconveniencing someone at least that long.
They could tweak the formula a bit and make exceptions for times of low demand, but then that comes with the assumption that there won't be a sudden spurt of demand (which is not impossible).
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
It seems this could lead to more confusion. Imagine someone parking at 4 am and the place is deserted. Then 4 hours later, all stalls are full. Would there be no idle charges for the first few hours and then it would start charging idle fees? They'd need to start sending notifications indicate the Supercharger is filling up. I think it's just a good idea not to ever park at a Supercharger. If they do start offering real-time status of Supercharger occupancy, then it might help...but there's still the possibility that the Superchargers are ICEd. How will Tesla handle idle fees if the spaces are all ICEd but they think they are all 'deserted'?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I was thinking the same. I'm sure a lot of people want the extra leniency, but then this can lead to more confusion.
One way to do this is to make this "unofficial". Meaning the charge will still be there, but can be waived (perhaps automatically) if half of the stalls at the location remain empty before you move the car. That way you don't set up an initial expectation that there would be no charge.
And if not above, there should be a clear warning that charges will still apply if the station gets sudden demand.
Exactly. This is why the original proposal was better. Keep it simple. When the car is done charging you have to move it or pay 40 cents a minute. Keep the stalls open for the morning rush.
Tesla spends on average over 250 grand per location for these supercharger locations and all Tesla is asking people to do is move the car after they get their free fill up. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
@MorrisonHiker + KJD,
+1
How does one know if the stalls were busy while they were gone? There could have been a line for a short period and dissipated after 30-45 mins either because they didn't feel like waiting or only needed a short charge to get to the next supercharger. What if the supercharger squatter takes 2 hours before they vacate? How does one know how they affected those that arrived there afterwards? You don't know unless you setup a camera to see what happened while you were gone.
TESLA, Keep it simple, PLEASE! I know that the person meant well in the Twitter post, but there can be all sorts of confusion that comes about from such an innocent change with good intentions -- remember, no good deed...
Just change it back to the original plan.. no harm, no foul.. yet.
+1
How does one know if the stalls were busy while they were gone? There could have been a line for a short period and dissipated after 30-45 mins either because they didn't feel like waiting or only needed a short charge to get to the next supercharger. What if the supercharger squatter takes 2 hours before they vacate? How does one know how they affected those that arrived there afterwards? You don't know unless you setup a camera to see what happened while you were gone.
TESLA, Keep it simple, PLEASE! I know that the person meant well in the Twitter post, but there can be all sorts of confusion that comes about from such an innocent change with good intentions -- remember, no good deed...
Just change it back to the original plan.. no harm, no foul.. yet.
Agreed, build more chargers in San Diego area, there is only one ! Duh
Agreed with the idle fee for areas with congestion, but I look forward to seeing another Tesla charging. Last month on a trip from DFW to Thunder Bay (18 SC stops), I saw three Teslas total for the trip. So for vast areas of the country there is no congestion at all. Now sometimes I take a nap in the car while charging and occasionally that nap lasts longer than the charging does (especially around 00:00). In that case I'm in the car so if there were a sudden rush all someone would have to do is tap on the window and I'd move.
The other thing that is not clear is what happens with a range charge. The network is far from being complete in places like Texas, Arkansas, Nebraska, and I'm sure you can think of others, so often a range charge is needed to get safely to the next charging place (especially true in winter when the range is reduced to about 175 miles on an 85). However, the way the App currently works is that a silent notification for charging complete is given when a full daily charge is achieved. Paying $0.40/min to complete a range charge is not good. I don't expect the network to be built up so that only a daily charge is required--even in the coldest conditions--during my lifetime.
The other thing that is not clear is what happens with a range charge. The network is far from being complete in places like Texas, Arkansas, Nebraska, and I'm sure you can think of others, so often a range charge is needed to get safely to the next charging place (especially true in winter when the range is reduced to about 175 miles on an 85). However, the way the App currently works is that a silent notification for charging complete is given when a full daily charge is achieved. Paying $0.40/min to complete a range charge is not good. I don't expect the network to be built up so that only a daily charge is required--even in the coldest conditions--during my lifetime.
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
I ALWAYS leave my contact info visible if there is even a chance I might not make it back to the car before charging is complete. After doing this for over three years, no one has ever contacted me.
There is a massive difference in supercharger congestion in places near population centers and places like South Dakota. In 2015 I asked someone who worked in a hotel in South Dakota how often people used the supercharger and she responded "about 1 car per day". My main point is that creating a rule to fix problems at mall superchargers in LA and applying them to superchargers at hotels in Wyoming and South Dakota isn't necessarily optimal.
I'd suggest designating any supercharger location where anyone has had to wait anytime in the past 30 days (as detected by a car plugging in to supercharger shortly after someone else unplugged from the same charging bay) as a "heavily used supercharger" and notifying people that idle fees apply when they plug in. That way people don't get fined for leaving a car sitting for a little bit after it's done at one of those "one car a day" locations. Putting destination chargers at all hotels with superchargers would also help things.
jgs
Active Member
Agreed. I'm a lot more sanguine about the new rules with the walk-back for non-busy locations than I was before.
Not sure about your proposed algorithm for designating a "heavily used supercharger". Seems kind of hair-trigger. Like, for 30 days after Labor Day, ever site in the country gets designated "heavily used". Similar perturbations introduced by local festivals, etc. I suppose it'll take some time and tweaking to get it right, I'm glad to see they've already demonstrated a willingness to experiment.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
The answer to your question is posted by KJD below. Tesla needs to change charging behavior before the storm
This will change as soon as the Model 3 production gets going.
Enjoy the calm before the storm.
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
The answer to your question is posted by KJD below. Tesla needs to change charging behavior before the storm
Making supercharging no longer free for new owners is almost certain to change charging behavior. I just hope the charging infrastructure (both superchargers and destination chargers) is in place so that no one ever needs to perform a 100% charge at a supercharger by the time our Model 3 starts shipping in volume.
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