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Many cars before Tesla driver have managed to avoid collision with the street sweeper because they were paying attention. If, by China standards, it was ok for sweeper to be there than it's driver responsibility to avoid it.
Chopr147
Active Member
No matter how we all look at this accident (China's lack of safety, other drivers avoided it etc.) We do know this is a weak spot of AP. Granted the driver is at fault but AP has to take some of that blame.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Well, AP's involvement in the accident is suspect, though.
It's well known that AP wouldn't have prevented the accident in the first place though, by design. It's true that it should have tried to mitigate it (AEB)...but the accident would have happened regardless. We don't know why the driver died...they may not have been wearing a seat-belt, or the street sweepers rear design my have impacted the front of the car in such a way that serious trauma was inevitable at whatever speed AEB would have brought the vehicle down to.
Not enough information on the accident, and too many people trying to run with limited information.
I don't expect AP to swerve but with all other so called safety features in the car, it needs to reduce the damage to minimum. Isn't safety one of the major selling points from Tesla?
What is the minimum? In all circumstances? AEB is and has always been a safety-net of last resort. All automated safety features are reserve chutes. Drive as if you do not have them.
You don't know how he died, seriously? Have you seen what's left of his dads car? He was driving at high speed and hit heavy equipment head on. AEB possibly could have saved his life by reducing speed.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Yes, we know he died from high speed impact, what we don't know is if AEB would have prevented his death. That was my point, which also seems to be yours...
In this case, we had a life loss. The video doesn't show the car to slow down at all. This is not acceptable in a Tesla while it can detect other cars driving around you on other lanes. I agree that you should drive as you don't have them, but you paid for the safety features, and some of us are getting the car because of the safety features. Of course I want them to work when I need them especially when it's the last resort type of situation.
Except that particular safety feature is well known to have limitations, across all manufacturers (yes I doubt even the newest Mercedes that obviously has a more capable system, would be advertised without caveats). I'd agree if it was sold as "this will always prevent or mitigate a serious accident". It wasn't.
Let's be serious about this scenario: very high speed, partial offset, driver not looking forward, unfavorable vehicle geometries, lack of warnings or lane closures. A *lot* of things went wrong here. To focus on one element (the fact that AEB on Tesla in it's current form is not a panacea) seems wrong to me.
Having driven daily in China over the last 5 years, I can not envisage when I would use autopilot without my hands on the wheel and paying attention to the road.
Driving on expressways/highways it is a regular occurrence for drivers to cut in and misjudge both distance and speed, there are regularly vehicles moving at very slow speeds (15-20MPH) and not necessarily in the slow lane. A large minority of drivers have only the most basic understanding of the rules of the road.
I large percentage of the driving population took their tests under a less than rigorous testing regime and up until a few years ago it was not unusual to have someone stand in to take the test for you.
In these circumstances, I use autopilot but as an assistance so I can concentrate on what may be about to happen around me.
Humans are not great at assessing risk even when dangers are explained to them but when the odds are so stacked against you as they are on roads in China, I can only guess that this driver was either undergoing a medical emergency, had fallen asleep or acted with a complete lack of responsibility.
Chopr147
Active Member
This poor guy, just like the Florida crash was fatal due to hitting a truck with a high (as in height) impact. Tesla may be a safe car but when it strikes something so hard and high over the front bumper like this the driver doesn't have much of a chance. The roof was completely sheared off in the Fla. incident. Hopefully 8.0 can correct this AEB weakness
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I've been in China and it is quite scary how people drive. It's not necessarily that they don't know the rules of the road, but rather there is little regard for it. Supposedly China has a law that both hands must be on the wheel while driving (while there is no such law in the US), but I guess that doesn't matter when most people don't have much regard for the rules of the road.
Seems that would make it difficult to change gears when driving a manual transmission.
green1
Active Member
8.0 will not reinforce the roof, it will not make trucks any softer, and it won't stop stupid people from doing stupid things.
It *MIGHT* help to make this exact situation less likely, but until people start putting the responsibility back on the drivers, deaths will continue to occur because at the current level of autonomy that Tesla has, there is no possible way to make the car avoid all collisions if people aren't paying attention.
No technical fix can solve this, and no added limitations will help even the smallest amount.
The ONLY solution is to stop blaming the technology and start blaming the drivers.
The driving is a lot better in Shanghai and Beijing because some of the rules have been enforced but as soon as you get outside those two cities it is many times worse.
The regulations do state that a driver should keep both hands on the wheel whenever possible, this particular regulation was highlighted in the news programme by CCTV.
One of many incidents I have been involved in was when in a public taxi. The driver decided to cut his fringe, checking in his door mirror to make sure it was straight, while careering down a major city street partially on the wrong side of the road. I had to shout at him numerous times to pull over so I could get out, deciding he could kill himself but not me!
There is a huge amount of confident incompetence and very little enforcement of traffic regulations unless infringements can be captured by fixed cameras.
When someone in China says their son was a good driver as the father did in the video, my first thought is good compared to whom?
The CCTV video made a point that the young man had a license to drive a lorry issued by the Army. This means he did not even take the civil test demanded of normal lorry drivers who are some of the most dangerous drivers on the road in China. This is exacerbated as Army drivers cannot be prosecuted by the police in China if driving a vehicle licensed to the Army which leads to quite scandalous driving habits with a lot of Army drivers.
The above is of course a generalisation and the driver in this accident could have been a very good cautious driver but the video evidence suggests that either there was medical in-capacitance, a mechanical failure which meant the driver could not brake or steer or he just wasn't paying attention.
C_A_Braun
Meet "Voodoo", Our S75 & "Solo Cup", Our Model 3
I do not "hear him singing just before the accident". I do hear him singing before the accident but then the video is clearly edited and the vehicles around him change as well as the scenery (billboards etc) but no singing and then a second or 2 later, BAM!
I would like see and hear the unedited video!
Chopr147
Active Member
8.0 won't reinforce the roof? That's crazy!
Sure the blame is on the driver but this type of accident can happen to anyone. If a car was in front and swerved around the truck someone w/o AP not "fully" paying attention may hit it. We know AP would. Noone can have 100% alertness 100% of the time. I really do hope 8.0 addresses this type of issue
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