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Any idea when 100D (not P100D) might make debut?
- Thread starter finallybuying
- Start date
AMPd
Well-Known Member
It depends on your mission. The extra 10-11% would make a big difference in the winter for some. Me, for example.
It was mentioned recently by Elon or JB that they are not looking to repurpose used packs into different applications any longer but believe it is better to recycle the cells into raw materials (doctor knows best on this one - Tesla don't make these kinds of decisions without examining the bigger picture and the nitty gritty thoroughly). Therefore the real value for used Tesla batteries now and in the future is in the used market where tinkerer types utilise the modules for DIY Powerwalls, electric car conversions, etc.
So battery swapping is not a super compelling path to battery upgrades unless your car happens to be written off - turns out to be better to just trade a vehicle in for a newer one than to invest the sweat and labour into the manoeuvring, re-fitting, re-purposing, re-certifying and reselling that goes into the battery swapping process.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It may not make sense to Tesla. But I'd say it may well make sense to an owner. Why on earht would you recycle a perfectly good, mildly used 85 kwh pack, when it could be made available (with all appropriate warranty caveats) to a 60 owner for 5-6K? And if environmental cred means anything, reuse is always better than recycle.
Yeah given BEV manufacturing has a bigger environmental footprint than ICE (made up for by the lower lifetime usage footprint) and therefore a Tesla pack may have the biggest manufacturing footprint of the lot, shredding that pack just to replace it with something 11% better early on may well cancel out any environmental benefit of the car over ICE. I'd like to see the numbers on that...
Indeed. Though it may be frustrating for owners the truth is that battery swapping doesn't look like the viable path it once seemed to be.
Haxster
Member
From this comparison, I guess that it's likely that a new 100D will be $10K more than a 90D (if the 90D is even still offered).
I wonder if the 0-60 times on the 100D might improve to 4.0 seconds or less. In my case, at least, this would be a more compelling benefit than the extra range.
From the numbers tesla have provided, the numbers doesn't add up.
EPA P85D = 253 miles
EPA 85D = 270 miles
EPA P90D = 270 miles
EPA 90D = 294 miles
P100D = 315 miles
100D = ? maybe 342 miles by my estimation.
As you can see, 5KWh from the P85D to P90D gives you 17 EPA miles. So assuming linear (no really, it gets worst because the new battery is slightly heavier and other stuff), you should get 34 miles. 270 + 34 = 304 miles. My guess is it's really closer to 300 miles.
Now of course everyone knows the 85KWh is really a 81KWh and the 90KWh is really a 86KWh. Going on that assumption the 100KWh is really a 96KWh. If tesla really have made the 100KWh battery a real 100KWh battery, then I can see how it can get 315 miles or more. But right now, I think the 315 miles rang is tesla's own numbers.
Ultimately we will have to wait and see what EPA gives the P100D, but my bet is closer to low 300 miles instead of the 315 miles. This mean the 100D will be around 340 miles as expected.
Like others have already echo'ed I'm hanging on the hope that some day battery swapping will be available.
Just like any part of a car it should be replaceable. If anything breaks or is faulty they have to be able to replace it. It shouldnt be like ... Oh your battery is faulty / defective whatever...you need a new car. It should be oh, we'll replace your battery.
Just like any part of a car it should be replaceable. If anything breaks or is faulty they have to be able to replace it. It shouldnt be like ... Oh your battery is faulty / defective whatever...you need a new car. It should be oh, we'll replace your battery.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
The rated range on my P90D at 100% was 262 miles about 5 months after it was new. About 8 miles less than the EPA stated range or about 3% less. That was the first time I charged that high. So if the EPA for the P100D is 315 and the real world numbers are in line with the P90D battery pack, then 97% of 315 would be.... about 306 miles.... a very nice number or aprox 44 more rated miles than my P90D.
It is nice to see Tesla adding this range to the S. It is NICER (for we existing owners) to see the SuperCharger network flushed out and growing into geographies that need them. Here in New England, for instance, the LEE Mass SuperCharger opens up western Mass and southern Vermont area. Especially in the Winter months when real range is sapped due to the cold.
It is nice to see Tesla adding this range to the S. It is NICER (for we existing owners) to see the SuperCharger network flushed out and growing into geographies that need them. Here in New England, for instance, the LEE Mass SuperCharger opens up western Mass and southern Vermont area. Especially in the Winter months when real range is sapped due to the cold.
Interesting side note is how Tesla is discounting the P90D right now - Tesla is reportedly heavily discounting inventory Model S P90D’s now that P100D is out
The battery can be replaced if it's defective. The discussion is more to do with replacing a perfectly good battery just because you want a bigger one - which is proving to be so costly its really not worthwhile (unless you drive a Roadster)
Kbra
Member
Interesting that Elon Musk said 100 is the max battery size. Wonder how long it will actually before the 100D is actually available...?
DIL
Member
Fiddling around trying to guesstimate where the 100 (if it even exists) and 100D might end up in terms of price, 0-60, and range.
Extrapolating very roughly:
Looking at the product portfolio, I suspect the 90 will go away sooner rather than later
Extrapolating very roughly:
Looking at the product portfolio, I suspect the 90 will go away sooner rather than later
Retired
Member
I am also waiting on the 100D. I have a couple of different 120 mile day trips that I occasionally make (with some running around at the destination). A 300 mile range lets me make those and return without having to stop at a supercharger. The 100D should let me do those and have a sufficient buffer.
Since I am in the CA Bay Area, severe winter weather is not on my menu but if it should occur then a stop would be needed but that is OK.
Since I am in the CA Bay Area, severe winter weather is not on my menu but if it should occur then a stop would be needed but that is OK.
Like the early Signature cars, those owners taking early deliveries paid more than owners purchasing cars later.
While the P100DL costs more than a P90DL, it's not clear Tesla will end up charging a lot more for a 100D than a 90D.
And, they may decide to offer both a 90D and a 100D option for a while.
If Tesla decides to drop the 90, then they really will need to get the 100 pricing down to around today's 90 pricing, like what was done previously between the 85 and 90s.
Tesla has really done a pretty good job in keeping pricing down. When I ordered my P85 4 years ago, the price I paid then, is comparable to what a 90D costs today - with about the same performance and many new features (AP, TACC, power folding mirrors, parking sensors, ...). If Tesla ends up dropping the 90 - and only offering the 100 battery packs, if they also increase the price, they may meet market resistance...
While the P100DL costs more than a P90DL, it's not clear Tesla will end up charging a lot more for a 100D than a 90D.
And, they may decide to offer both a 90D and a 100D option for a while.
If Tesla decides to drop the 90, then they really will need to get the 100 pricing down to around today's 90 pricing, like what was done previously between the 85 and 90s.
Tesla has really done a pretty good job in keeping pricing down. When I ordered my P85 4 years ago, the price I paid then, is comparable to what a 90D costs today - with about the same performance and many new features (AP, TACC, power folding mirrors, parking sensors, ...). If Tesla ends up dropping the 90 - and only offering the 100 battery packs, if they also increase the price, they may meet market resistance...
Interesting way to look at it. I'm going to suggest that you might be a bit off.
1. The 90D is motor limited, not battery limited. So unless they change the motors (unlikely I think) the 0-60 won't change from the 90D to 100D.
2. I think you'll see the 100D as being closer to the cost of a 90D. The non-P is more about volume and they can't keep pushing the price up indefinitely without losing buyers. They may offer a 85D/100D car, where the 85 is a software limited 100.
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