Anybody have direct experience with Amber Electricity?

[AndyEV]

Hi all,

I hear about opportunities for good savings using Amber and high feed in payments at certain times in NSW, for example.

I am currently with another provider, with a reasonable plan, with a couple of PW2s, and a 3 phase system. I did try Amber for a little while over summer, but just didn’t see the benefit with such large amounts of renewables in the market. Aware that I didn’t persevere however for more than a few weeks

Considering re-trying, but is there anyone around in metro Victoria that has tried this for any period of time? What are your experiences with general FITs vs. periods where there is a short-term high FIT?

Thanks!

 

[Brian May]

I have Amber and a Tesla and am really happy with both.

There are some challenges charging at the optimal price though. Sometimes best time is at night, sometimes best time during the day. In the second case, don't want to rely on charging a really low battery during the day when car is going to be out all day. Similarly, don't want to charge the car at higher prices during the night if it will be at home during cheaper prices the next day. Also don't want to let the battery get too flat and suddenly find due to storms or whatever we have a power outage for several days (there are chargers nearby so maybe not critical - but chances are the limited number of chargers would be rather busy too).

As a result, sometimes it is necessarily to charge at non-optimal times.

I have an automatic program to try to help, something like (can't remember exact thresholds right now, and is slightly more complicated to prevent constant charging if price fluctuates near threshold):

* If price of electricity is < 30c, charge to 50%.
* If price of electricity is < 15c, charge to 80%.
* If price of electricity is < 10c, charge to 90%.
* During 3am to 6am, charge to 70%.

This doesn't work so well when we expect to do a lot of driving (ie. want more then 70% charge) and price of electricity is high. Currently I override my automatic system for these days, but might tweak it a bit more in future (e.g. provide more inputs, such as maybe if need more battery the next day, or if the car is expected to be at home the next day).

And the other variable is the Tesla API. Occasionally it just won't wake-up properly, despite sending successful wake up commands, and repeatedly refuses to start charging, responding with obscure errors. Even the Tesla app gets this same problem. I have to open the car doors to get it to respond correctly. Maybe a sign of having an older car, not sure. It does have the upgraded infotainment package.

 

[Max Spaghetti]

* If price of electricity is < 30c, charge to 50%.
* If price of electricity is < 15c, charge to 80%.
* If price of electricity is < 10c, charge to 90%.

May I ask how you automate this?

I used to have Amber but wasn't aware of any way to automate charging based on prices.

 

[Brian May]

May I ask how you automate this?

This is entirely my own custom code, written in Rust, that talks to the Amber API to get the prices, Tesla API to start and stop charging, and Teslamate (via MQTT) to get current car status (without resorting to constant polling which would keep the car awake). If you don't mind getting your hands dirty in Rust, can provide more details.

 

[jamesgo]

I'm with Amber, it's good but with Tesla their currently hitting the Tesla API limits which they're trying to work around.

 

[AussieOwner]

I have Amber and a Tesla and am really happy with both.

There are some challenges charging at the optimal price though. Sometimes best time is at night, sometimes best time during the day. In the second case, don't want to rely on charging a really low battery during the day when car is going to be out all day. Similarly, don't want to charge the car at higher prices during the night if it will be at home during cheaper prices the next day. Also don't want to let the battery get too flat and suddenly find due to storms or whatever we have a power outage for several days (there are chargers nearby so maybe not critical - but chances are the limited number of chargers would be rather busy too).

As a result, sometimes it is necessarily to charge at non-optimal times.

I have an automatic program to try to help, something like (can't remember exact thresholds right now, and is slightly more complicated to prevent constant charging if price fluctuates near threshold):

* If price of electricity is < 30c, charge to 50%.
* If price of electricity is < 15c, charge to 80%.
* If price of electricity is < 10c, charge to 90%.
* During 3am to 6am, charge to 70%.

This doesn't work so well when we expect to do a lot of driving (ie. want more then 70% charge) and price of electricity is high. Currently I override my automatic system for these days, but might tweak it a bit more in future (e.g. provide more inputs, such as maybe if need more battery the next day, or if the car is expected to be at home the next day).

And the other variable is the Tesla API. Occasionally it just won't wake-up properly, despite sending successful wake up commands, and repeatedly refuses to start charging, responding with obscure errors. Even the Tesla app gets this same problem. I have to open the car doors to get it to respond correctly. Maybe a sign of having an older car, not sure. It does have the upgraded infotainment package.

I would also like to know more about this API and where it can be obtained.

 

[jamesgo]

Prices were negative today, so I got paid to charge the Powerwall and car

 

[cafz]

Prices were negative today, so I got paid to charge the Powerwall and car

VIC or SA I guess?

 

[Brian May]

I would also like to know more about this API and where it can be obtained.

Not sure, did you mean you want more information on the Tesla API?

Is unofficial, but is what the official app uses. See Tesla API - Tesla API - I think I saw other references also.

Getting the initial token can be a pain, since Tesla locked this down. This use to work, but last I tried it didn't: Tesla API and Refresh Token Generator

This seems to be a better choice now: GitHub - adriankumpf/tesla_auth: Securely generate API tokens for third-party access to your Tesla.

If you need up-to-date information, this means constantly polling the car. But that forces the car to stay awake - while this increases reliability of getting fast and accurate status changes, it will cause the car to have more vampire drain. Instead use teslamate and configure it to send data via mqtt. Anything can subscribe to these mqtt events and get mostly up-to-date data.

And if the car is asleep, it won't respond to commands. Need to repeatedly send the wake up command until car wakes up. And occasionally the car will say it is awake, but still refuse to respond.

Or did you mean you want more information on my code?

 

[jamesgo]

VIC or SA I guess?

Victoria.

Yeah, I earnt $11 yesterday charging the car and powerwall

 

[AndyEV]

VIC or SA I guess?

Prices were negative today, so I got paid to charge the Powerwall and car

View attachment 970670

James - is this really what it means? I thought that with this symbol, it means that you are actually charged to put power into the grid. It is only when the FIT is high that you can make money from putting money into the grid. Overall, I thought that Amber adds up all the power export at the times you export, and then if it is on average less, you get the general government FIT, and if you make a profit over this, you keep it.

Am I way off base here?

Thanks.

 

[cafz]

James - is this really what it means? I thought that with this symbol, it means that you are actually charged to put power into the grid. It is only when the FIT is high that you can make money from putting money into the grid. Overall, I thought that Amber adds up all the power export at the times you export, and then if it is on average less, you get the general government FIT, and if you make a profit over this, you keep it.

Am I way off base here?

That picture was the buy price. Just like the feed-in (sell) price can be negative - as you say, you'd be charged to put power into the grid - the buy price can be negative, and you are paid to consume power.

The feed-in price will be lower than the buy price by an amount somewhere in the range of 2c - 10c /kWh, due to the network use-of-service (NUOS) charges that apply to imported power, so the although the feed-in price often goes negative, the wholesale price has to be a bit lower for the the buy price to go negative and it's a bit rarer.

The government-mandated floor FIT only applies in Victoria, by the way.

 

[Hairyman]

That picture was the buy price. Just like the feed-in (sell) price can be negative - as you say, you'd be charged to put power into the grid - the buy price can be negative, and you are paid to consume power.

The feed-in price will be lower than the buy price by an amount somewhere in the range of 2c - 10c /kWh, due to the network use-of-service (NUOS) charges that apply to imported power, so the although the feed-in price often goes negative, the wholesale price has to be a bit lower for the the buy price to go negative and it's a bit rarer.

The government-mandated floor FIT only applies in Victoria, by the way.

Makes a real-time way of automating power flow in your home pretty attractive as has been mentioned before.

 

[Vostok]

I took the leap and signed up to Amber yesterday (NSW). A brain fade though in not seeking a referral code first, repeating my error when I bought my Tesla in 2019 . Too late now I suspect.

Possibly not a great time to sign up though, when Sydney has had 12 days straight of rain, renewable generation is way down, as is my own solar . But I’m on the rollercoaster now, so will enjoy the ride… until I don’t?

What I did notice is that my modest solar export yesterday was paid at 10x the rate I was getting with my former supplier! Average grid price paid so far is higher though, but early days.

It takes Amber about 5 days to work with Tesla to get the PW2 set up to become part of their VPP, so until then, I will continue to run my python script which grid charges my PW2 overnight if solar production the next day is forecast to be not high enough to fill it. But I will stop that and let Amber control my battery once they are ready.

@meloccom - please consider changing the thread title to “Amber Electricity experiences” to make it not specific to VIC? I think Amber’s offering is really interesting in the context of EVs and home batteries, so needs a thread all can contribute towards. Cheers.

 

[Vostok]

This is entirely my own custom code, written in Rust, that talks to the Amber API to get the prices, Tesla API to start and stop charging, and Teslamate (via MQTT) to get current car status (without resorting to constant polling which would keep the car awake).

Cool - I didn’t know that Amber have an API. Now that I’m a customer I’ll check it out and probably write my own code to do similar. I wrote a python script to do my own version of “Charge on Solar” until Tesla implemented their own, which works better. I can repurpose my script to be “Charge and get paid for it ” when Amber prices are negative.

 

[Brian May]

Cool - I didn’t know that Amber have an API.

A previous iteration I took AEMO rates, and manually converted them. But keeping track of all the variables was kind of a pain - simpler just to use the Amber API. Which is well documented.

 

[Jules22]

Too late now I suspect.

Actually still possible, when I signed up I forgot to apply the referral code I'd been given, but I emailed them and they were happy to apply it and give me my discount.

 

[meloccom]

Moderators note:
Hopefully the OPs original Victoria specific question has been answered. Let me know if not.
Removed references to Victoria from title to allow broader discussion.

 

[Jules22]

If anyone is interested I did an explainer video a while back on how Amber works -

Had a fantastic couple of days this week which earned me $500, have not had to pay a single bill since I joined them, currently sitting around $800 credit (you can request a payout which I'll be doing after this month finishes).

I have heard of people using it successfully without batteries, I can't comment on how that would work, but it would require a lot of work in monitoring prices and modifying behaviour I suspect.

If you do have a smart battery system that will handle export commands etc, (can certainly recommend Tesla Powerwall 2 or above, I have two of them currently), then it's a fantastic opportunity to be earning money from them rather than paying power bills.