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Anyone comparing the e-tron GT to the Model S

Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,260
825
Knaphill
Its not misleading at all. It was what it was with video evidence to show for it. Even the article you link to has the etron charging significantly faster than the tesla above 50% SOC. If the 100 miles you add are from 0% SOC the Tesla will win, if its from 40% the e-tron will win.
Exactly, in a real world use case it's better to take a Tesla on a roadtrip. If you are stopping to charge at 40% you are doing it wrong.
 
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Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,260
825
Knaphill
So yes, the Audi is less efficient in driving, so will cost you more to run. But given a sizeable journey where you need to charge on the way, it'd almost certainly be faster as it was a -lot- quicker to charge.
It wont be faster, if you arrive at 20% audi will take longer to get the same range back... In reality you would drive between 10% and 60% from supercharger to supercharger on long trips. With the flat curve of the audi that would result in charging stops twice as long.

Here is a Tesla trip Lodel 3 LR

Tesla trip.JPG


And audi trip 2021 model
Audi Trip.JPG


Almost the same distance, with charge time being 1 hour longer.
 

MrAliG

Member
Jul 17, 2016
89
88
UK
I’m going to sell my 911 shortly because it never gets driven.
I am in the same boat, I find it increasingly hard not to drive something electric, it just feels nicer.

However, my 911 is a cabriolet, if there was an electric cabriolet available I would be all over that.

Glad you agree with me re the weight of the Taycan. I am just going on many reviews that said it felt like a 4 door 911. Maybe in a straight line, but as soon as you turn a corner you can feel how heavy it is.

We love our X and I am really torn with how to replace it with UK deliveries delayed until next year. I do like the space, nothing else electric comes close.
 

phil4

Member
Sep 8, 2020
291
160
UK
It wont be faster, if you arrive at 20% audi will take longer to get the same range back... In reality you would drive between 10% and 60% from supercharger to supercharger on long trips. With the flat curve of the audi that would result in charging stops twice as long.

Here is a Tesla trip Lodel 3 LR

View attachment 647226

And audi trip 2021 model
View attachment 647227

Almost the same distance, with charge time being 1 hour longer.

So what you're saying is in one particular situation - ~40% it takes half the time as a Tesla LR.
However if you arrive with 20% the Tesla will charge faster.

Great... but not everyone does the super long journeys you've just illustrated... I'd bet there are quite a lot that go as far as ~40% and so would find the next hop (and possibly the last) quicker.

So yes, the Audi is quicker to charge ~half the time, and yes the other half the Tesla may be.

I don't for one second see that as misleading, I see that as interesting, and something perhaps Tesla should start to learn from - because for a good many people it'll matter.
 
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Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,538
2,284
UK, Milton Keynes
A bit longer charging? I'll just watch an extra episode of something on Netflix :D
Yep, can't say I've ever found Supercharging to be frustratingly long. Usually by the time I've had a coffee and pee it's time to go again. For me range and reliable fast charger availability are far more important than charging speed (within the context of 20-30 min charges).

To be honest I've always found Supercharging to be a far more pleasant overall experience than filling up in a busy petrol station.
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,538
2,284
UK, Milton Keynes
I am in the same boat, I find it increasingly hard not to drive something electric, it just feels nicer.

However, my 911 is a cabriolet, if there was an electric cabriolet available I would be all over that.

Glad you agree with me re the weight of the Taycan. I am just going on many reviews that said it felt like a 4 door 911. Maybe in a straight line, but as soon as you turn a corner you can feel how heavy it is.

We love our X and I am really torn with how to replace it with UK deliveries delayed until next year. I do like the space, nothing else electric comes close.
Even the Porsche designer admitted that the Taycan was heavy and that they weren't yet confident of producing an electric "911".
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,913
1,952
Bath, UK
Pretty sure I read recently that a senior bod at Porsche said that the 911 would never be electrified because it's their halo car and therefore must remain as an ICE. That says all that needs to be said about Porsche's true feelings when it comes to EV, imo. It might not be an opinion shared throughout the company, but if accurate it does suggest an element of them box ticking with the Taycan rather than earnestly believing in the tech, or - more importantly - the environmental benefits.
 

Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,260
825
Knaphill
So what you're saying is in one particular situation - ~40% it takes half the time as a Tesla LR.
However if you arrive with 20% the Tesla will charge faster.

Great... but not everyone does the super long journeys you've just illustrated... I'd bet there are quite a lot that go as far as ~40% and so would find the next hop (and possibly the last) quicker.

So yes, the Audi is quicker to charge ~half the time, and yes the other half the Tesla may be.

I don't for one second see that as misleading, I see that as interesting, and something perhaps Tesla should start to learn from - because for a good many people it'll matter.

Here is another trip, this time heavily favouring the Audi - 1 stop with Tesla "topping up" 54-68. Audi still takes 10 min longer - driving 1 less mile. Or you could supercharge for longer and have more at destination.

I fail to see how "charging faster" gets you to your destination faster...

Tesla

Tesla Trip.PNG


Audi


Audi trip.PNG
 
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Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,260
825
Knaphill
The other thing to remember, even when it's charging faster at 60+%, how much actual range does it add per minute. 'oh my goodness I got the last 40% faster than a Tesla" - but can only drive 2/3rd of the distance with that 40%....

You would have thunk that actual distance covered vs time expended would be worth more than "charges faster when x conditions are met"
 
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MrAliG

Member
Jul 17, 2016
89
88
UK
I don't know what the average use on the site is, but I have never once used a supercharger for a long trip. In the last 10 years, the furthest I have driven in a day is 150 miles.

If you make a lot of long trips I would say superchargers are a big benefit, but the average UK driver doesn't make many long trips, so they might be open to different options.

I am waiting to see how the Mercedes EQS compares to the X/S. Even better might be an EQS SUV but that is going to be well into next year. The higher facelift prices are going to let you cross shop some interesting cars. For me the Audi GT looks very nice, but would not have enough space. The Taycan Cross is better with a hatch, but only has 4 seats. The Model X reigns supreme as a 7 seat electric car at the moment. Particularly as the X5 and Q7 hybrids only have 5 seats and the GLS/X7 aren't available as PHEVs. The XC90 feels like a much cheaper car and I didn't like it when I test drove it.

I will also wait with interest to see reviews of the facelift S/X. I am quite nervous about the lack of column stalks. It seems like a cost saving effort too far. Will be particularly painful if they have still not fixed the autowipers! It reminds me a bit of when the X came out. I was all ready to get one until they came out with the non folding middle row seats. A 5 metre car with a short boot was not for me. I was straight in when they sorted that issue out.
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,538
2,284
UK, Milton Keynes
I don't know what the average use on the site is, but I have never once used a supercharger for a long trip. In the last 10 years, the furthest I have driven in a day is 150 miles.

If you make a lot of long trips I would say superchargers are a big benefit, but the average UK driver doesn't make many long trips, so they might be open to different options.

I am waiting to see how the Mercedes EQS compares to the X/S. Even better might be an EQS SUV but that is going to be well into next year. The higher facelift prices are going to let you cross shop some interesting cars. For me the Audi GT looks very nice, but would not have enough space. The Taycan Cross is better with a hatch, but only has 4 seats. The Model X reigns supreme as a 7 seat electric car at the moment. Particularly as the X5 and Q7 hybrids only have 5 seats and the GLS/X7 aren't available as PHEVs. The XC90 feels like a much cheaper car and I didn't like it when I test drove it.

I will also wait with interest to see reviews of the facelift S/X. I am quite nervous about the lack of column stalks. It seems like a cost saving effort too far. Will be particularly painful if they have still not fixed the autowipers! It reminds me a bit of when the X came out. I was all ready to get one until they came out with the non folding middle row seats. A 5 metre car with a short boot was not for me. I was straight in when they sorted that issue out.
I'm certainly not a heavy Supercharger user, but I still find the charging network very important for our main family car. I'm not ready to rely on the public charging network just yet. But for a second EV on-road charging doesn't really matter to me. So for example I could easily live with a Model X and an iD3, Polestar or whatever other second EV of choice. As it happens my wife really wanted a Model 3 and I wasn't going to argue with that!
 

DrJFoster

Member
Aug 27, 2019
102
69
UK
R Symons posted another video yesterday driving an ID4 v a Tesla M3 LR from Scotland to the south coast. I think he rambles on a bit and makes some mistakes, he hasn;t a clue about charging losses and prefers conspiracy theories, his conclusions are all over the place, but the results of the drive are the results and both cars arrived back at the same time despite both needing to charge on the way, with the VW needing an extra splash and dash to make it. But you don't get many longer journeys than from the top to bottom of the country in a day so the the take away is there's not much in it..
 

12Pack

..
Aug 25, 2017
405
258
Manchester, UK / SFO, US
So I would replace my Plaid MS order with an Audi Etron GT performance equivalent order and for that I would get subjectively better(??) but old school looks and interior and give up space, driving efficiency, proper battery management with 3rd party app support, easy access to fast charging?

No chance.
 

GeorgeSymonds

Member
Mar 16, 2018
974
576
UK
So I would replace my Plaid MS order with an Audi Etron GT performance equivalent order and for that I would get subjectively better(??) but old school looks and interior and give up space, driving efficiency, proper battery management with 3rd party app support, easy access to fast charging?

No chance.
There's nothing old school about the etron GTs looks to me, specially if you parked it alongside a Tesla
Interior space is a choice
Driving efficiency.. do we know the etrons GTs figures yet, if its like the Taycan the real world range could be very impressive even if the official stats aren't, something to do with the 2 speed gearbox
Proper battery management? What makes you think the Tesla one is better? And the MS plaid has battery cell design dating back to 2015, its only the plaid+ that gets the latest
3rd party app.. you mean a hacked and relatively insecure gateway thats unofficial?

I have a MS P90DL, its got some great plus points, but the new car so far has done nothing to make me want to upgrade to it.
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,913
1,952
Bath, UK
I would tend to agree. Externally it looks very sharp. The interior is a mess of Audi overengineered controls etc, as per. That is to taste though, having gone to a car with a minimalist interior I am very keen on "less is more".

I too also tend to think that the new S isn't as revolutionary as it needs to be, and neither is the X - although the X is pretty much in a class of its own in terms of the market it is positioned at. i would've really liked to have seen quite a dramatic exterior change on the S. I also tend to think - perhaps its snobbery - but if I were spending £100k+ then I'd want the sort of creature comforts that Audi and co give you, i.e. ventilated seats, matrix headlights, etc.

Having said that I imagine the whole Audi, Porsche, etc experience is as its always been - something you either accept and embrace or find frustrating. I would be pretty frustrated - as a bit of a geek - going from a car where I can see what's going on with it on a webpage, analyse every drive, etc to one where I have to play by Audi or Porsche rules, and maybe not have access to something because they've gated it away to more expensive models, etc.
 

Hurricane

Member
Jan 30, 2020
51
46
UK
So I would replace my Plaid MS order with an Audi Etron GT performance equivalent order and for that I would get subjectively better(??) but old school looks and interior and give up space, driving efficiency, proper battery management with 3rd party app support, easy access to fast charging?

No chance.

If you wanted a car with superb build quality, levels of comfort and refinement that match the price, windscreen wipers that work and a decent set of matrix headlights then a Tesla wouldn’t even be on your shopping list. Oh, and of course a decent PDI before delivery. Different people have different priorities, and the inadequacies I’ve mentioned mean I won’t be getting another Tesla.
 

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
3,349
2,524
Scotland
Audi seem to have everyone convinced of their quality ... members feedback to Which said something different:

"You’d think a luxury car brand would be reassuringly reliable, but in Audi's case you’d be wrong. Feedback from Audi’s owners reveals lacklustre reliability in its cars' first three years of life, and downright disappointing dependability for cars aged three to eight years. At first glance, Audi’s average fault rate of 26% among its 0-3-year-old cars doesn’t seem alarming. But the breakdown rate of 8.5% raises an eyebrow. It’s the third highest we’ve seen across cars this young. That means that one in 12 owners we heard from had their Audi break down at least once in the 12 months prior to filling in our latest survey."

Read more: Should I buy an Audi? - Which?
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,538
2,284
UK, Milton Keynes
Perceived build quality and reliability are different things. Audi go out of their way to promote an image of superior build quality and refinement, which they do live up to in showroom appeal and initial driving impressions. But their reliability is pretty average at best.

But the most disappointing thing with Audi (and pretty much all legacy manufacturers) is their reluctance to move on from an old school approach to both interior and exterior design. At least Tesla dare to be different, even if it doesn’t always quite work!
 
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