Anyone else ticked off the Model S has no spare tire?

[green1]

Correct, but if Tesla suppled a space saver spare it would be integrated somewhere that would make it less of an elephant in a closet. (What I didn't want was to give up the frunk that I use as a suitcase when I travel).

And by integrating it, they have to take the space from somewhere, do you want a smaller frunk? or a smaller trunk? or less battery? or fewer seats? where do you want them to take the space from?

Personally, I don't want them to take that much space out of anywhere.

 

[eloder]

I'd like the option of a spare (and jack). Those who don't need one can have it your way too. And those of us who spend a lot of time out in the boondocks would be able to self-rescue and continue with our trips without a major change in plans. Win-win.

I imagine finding a third party solution is pretty easy. I've even seen a smart car carrying a spare around. Can't imagine the MS with something like 7x the cubic volume available for storage has an issue if you need it.

I'm really amazed by some of the flat frequencies here though. I've driven probably something like 50-60k miles in my lifetime so far, but probably have easily ridden 200k+ miles in vehicles and not a single one has seen a flat.

 

[Canuck]

I imagine finding a third party solution is pretty easy.

Compact Space Saver Tire/Wheel Solution

 

[jcaspar]

- - - Updated - - -

Second post from a rural Canadian who says they rarely get serious flats. I suspect my initial gut reaction extends to even more of Canada: your rural roads are relatively clean and good quality!


EDIT: And now I've seen a lot of USA urban drivers post, saying they get numerous flats, which leads me to believe that many urban areas have a lot of ghetto-garbage and ghetto-potholes causing flats. I've also seen many urban drivers post saying they don't get flats. I kind of recognize the urban areas that are worse at flats have more ghettos than the places people post from that aren't getting the flats. If you live your whole life in a city with nice roads and no messy people, you'll never get a flat, whereas if you live anyplace with potholes and nails, you'll get them all the time. I see this also happening to some people who are in the rural areas in USA, which leads me to believe that rural areas in USA are given to poor road maintenance and cleanliness, compared to our neighbor to the north. All this means is that people's different experiences all make sense.

I can't speak for Aptos, but in my area, it has nothing to do with ghettos (are there more nails in ghettos?) but construction. Areas with more prosperity generally have more home remodeling and larger home remodeling projects which leads to more nails, the number one source of flats that I have had

 

[pnaecker]

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful feedback, and for the pointers to other posts on the subject (especially the one referenced by Canuck, above). I can summarize much of it with the following:

1. Forum members have a wide range of experience with frequency of flats, due not only to the differences in typical driving distances but also differences in road conditions. Some people have only experienced "easily patched" flats and thus put significant faith in patch kits and "tire gunk", while others have experienced unpatchable flats (including one very impressive encounter with a railroad spike). There is a also a wide range in personal preference for "do it yourself" vs "call for help". The result is a wider range than I expected in willingness to trade off storage space for the ability to have a spare handy.

2. The fact that many people never use their spare was one of many good reasons given for why many car manufacturers (not just Tesla) have jettisoned the spare. What's missing is the difference between "most people never use a spare" and "some people really, really want to have the added security of a spare".

3. Once the Tesla team decided not to include a spare, the design process cleanly eliminated all the annoyances that a spare creates in space design, like asymmetry in storage space. So we now have a design with no good place to store a spare.

4. A number of forum members have created their own spare solution. With careful choices, one can even find a compact solution that doesn't freak out the stability control and other safety features of the car. The remaining bits (jack, lug wrench) can go into the trunk or frunk.

Thanks for all the feedback.

A more nuanced form of my original complaint would be this: While Tesla can reasonably decide not to provide a spare as standard equipment, what I really want is for them to provide a place for me to safely store a spare. Some forum members store a spare in the frunk, but it seems that this many significantly reduce the crumple zone. Others store the tire in the rear, but the problem here is that there is no structurally secure mounting point to prevent the tire from becoming a lethal flying object in an accident. Similarly, I would be worried about no firm mounting for a heavy jack - just putting it in the trunk well won't cut it, IMHO.

And so I reduce my original rant to a suggestion: In future cars, Telsa should provide two or three structural tie-down points with appropriate adapters that could be used to secure a spare and a jack. (If someone is aware of such tie-downs, I'd like to know about it). If their crash test data says this would work in the frunk, then that would be even better. Let users make their own space-vs-convenience trade-off by providing a safe way to implement our own after-market solution.

 

[Vitold]

Have you also considered that by putting spare tire in the frunk you may be defeating crumple zones that make Tesla S such a safe car?

 

[mknox]

I carry a compressor and "gunk" plus a tire plug kit with me. Problem is, I've had flats were that wouldn't have helped. (i.e. a piece of steel band sliced my sidewall). I heard someone mention that Tesla Roadside in certain areas will actually bring you a spare tire so you can get on your way. I like that idea, but in my neck of the woods, Tesla does not have very good contracts set up for Roadside and I don't believe they bring spares. The wait times here can be horrendous, and my SC staff admitted that it was a problem and that they would like to see Tesla engage with more towing firms. I have CAA/AAA membership and they have always been very quick and reliable. My biggest issue with no spare is the lost time I would suffer waiting for a flatbed and arranging for a tire repair/replacement. It does happen infrequently, so maybe I just have to balance the high potential severity of the situation with the low probability and deal with it that way.

 

[jgs]

ThankSome forum members store a spare in the frunk, but it seems that this many significantly reduce the crumple zone. Others store the tire in the rear, but the problem here is that there is no structurally secure mounting point to prevent the tire from becoming a lethal flying object in an accident.

(And so on…)

I haven't gone back and checked the manual, but it was my understanding that both the trunk and the frunk were explicitly intended for carrying loads, and that the car was supposed to be acceptably safe even when carrying loads in those spaces. If the car becomes unsafe if the frunk isn't left empty, Tesla should probably put out a bulletin to that effect.

No, seriously, I understand that the fewer objects in the car, the less that can go wrong in the event of a crash. But do you apply this same reasoning to other loads carried in the spaces? Is there something special about the tire and associated bric-a-brac that makes it substantially more of a concern than the, say, a bike, or some suitcases, or similar? Or do you always drive with your cargo^H^H^H^H crumple spaces empty? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't object to some tiedowns, but I think escalating this to the level of a big safety concern verges on hyperbole.

 

[Vitold]

(And so on…)

I haven't gone back and checked the manual, but it was my understanding that both the trunk and the frunk were explicitly intended for carrying loads, and that the car was supposed to be acceptably safe even when carrying loads in those spaces. If the car becomes unsafe if the frunk isn't left empty, Tesla should probably put out a bulletin to that effect.

No, seriously, I understand that the fewer objects in the car, the less that can go wrong in the event of a crash. But do you apply this same reasoning to other loads carried in the spaces? Is there something special about the tire and associated bric-a-brac that makes it substantially more of a concern than the, say, a bike, or some suitcases, or similar? Or do you always drive with your cargo^H^H^H^H crumple spaces empty? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't object to some tiedowns, but I think escalating this to the level of a big safety concern verges on hyperbole.

Consider that Tesla's argument for increased safety is lack of engine in front. When you put a tire in the frunk you're effectively negating portion of that advantage (it's not only tire, suitcase also but rim is much more rigid than a suitcase).

 

[jgs]

Consider that Tesla's argument for increased safety is lack of engine in front. When you put a tire in the frunk you're effectively negating portion of that advantage (it's not only tire, suitcase also but rim is much more rigid than a suitcase).

It's also considerably lighter and less rigid than an enormous block of aluminum and iron. I continue to think this is a red herring.

 

[jaguar36]

Consider that Tesla's argument for increased safety is lack of engine in front. When you put a tire in the frunk you're effectively negating portion of that advantage (it's not only tire, suitcase also but rim is much more rigid than a suitcase).

A suitcase isn't going to make any difference in a crash. It is not nearly strong enough to do anything that would matter.

I would also be surprised if a spare tire had any significant negative effects being in the frunk. You're comparing a 300-500lb engine block to a 20lb-30lb wheel. The tire itself might actually prove beneficial in absorbing crash energy. In addition the wheel will be centered in the car mostly in between the two front occupants.

 

[dgpcolorado]

You have that option. Buy a spare and a jack, and put them in your trunk (or frunk, if you have a RWD car).

So clearly your for your situation you should have a spare and a jack in your Model S. So you should certainly carry those items. Search online for someone who is selling a wheel, order a tire and have it mounted, and buy a suitable jack.
I think it is also clear that the majority of owners do not feel the need to carry a spare and a jack, and there is no compelling reason for Tesla to offer this items as an option since they are not difficult to purchase privately.
Win-win...

Fair point and that is, indeed, my plan. It would be nice to have a Tesla engineered option, however.

What do they do for countries that require spares? My understanding is that Australia requires spares (I presume that a flat in the Outback is a serious issue). Perhaps someone from Down Under can comment on that.

- - - Updated - - -

[/I]...I'm really amazed by some of the flat frequencies here though. I've driven probably something like 50-60k miles in my lifetime so far, but probably have easily ridden 200k+ miles in vehicles and not a single one has seen a flat.

I don't drive all that much, less than 10k miles per year on average. But that means that my driving experience is around 450k miles (plus another 58k miles bicycle commuting). So, more miles and years to accumulate flat tires than some others here.

I can't speak for Aptos, but in my area, it has nothing to do with ghettos (are there more nails in ghettos?) but construction. Areas with more prosperity generally have more home remodeling and larger home remodeling projects which leads to more nails, the number one source of flats that I have had

This has been my experience as well. Since the housing bust in 2008, construction has been pretty dead around here (no housing recovery here yet). And I haven't had a flat in my local area since. Fewer nails and screws on the roads.

Local flats are a nuisance. Road trip flats are a PITA. I'd only carry the spare on long trips and rely on a plug kit for local driving.

 

[Vitold]

A suitcase isn't going to make any difference in a crash. It is not nearly strong enough to do anything that would matter.

I would also be surprised if a spare tire had any significant negative effects being in the frunk. You're comparing a 300-500lb engine block to a 20lb-30lb wheel. The tire itself might actually prove beneficial in absorbing crash energy. In addition the wheel will be centered in the car mostly in between the two front occupants.

I do not know what effect wheel in a frunk may have during collision but I think you'd agree that it's large and rigid enough that it will affect car's crumple zones. It may be beneficial in some crashes (old RAV4 used spare wheel as part of crash protection) and detrimental in others (higher impact).

 

[FlatSix911]

The Porsche 911 was specifically designed to carry a spare in the Frunk and it was engineered to improve frontal impact safety.
I remember reading that Porsche did not recommend removing the spare tire as it would put the safety feature at risk.

 

[Canuck]

The Porsche 911 was specifically designed to carry a spare in the Frunk and it was engineered to improve frontal impact safety.
I remember reading that Porsche did not recommend removing the spare tire as it would put the safety feature at risk.

Well if they recommend that you don't remove it, then it's not of much use if you have a flat...

 

[nishy1]

The Porsche 911 was specifically designed to carry a spare in the Frunk and it was engineered to improve frontal impact safety.
I remember reading that Porsche did not recommend removing the spare tire as it would put the safety feature at risk.

Mine never had a spare in the front

 

[FlatSix911]

Well if they recommend that you don't remove it, then it's not of much use if you have a flat...

Touché, I should have said that Porsche did not recommend permanent removal (to save weight)

Mine never had a spare in the front

The newer water cooled cars have the slime/air pump combo. All of the pre-1999 Air-cooled have the spare.

 

[roblab]

ANY BODY ELSE TICKED OFF THE MODEL S HAS NO SPARE?

If you want a spare, buy one. Most of us don't want / need / use one anyway. No. I'm not ticked off.

Haven't had a flat in years. My Tesla tells me if I've run over a nail or screw, I fix the slow leak with a plug (no I don't remove the tire, gasp!), and drive until I buy new tires. That's happened twice in the last ten years. The last half-dozen cars I've had, we sold the car with the original spare.

I can certainly understand Tesla's decision to not include a near worthless twenty pounds of used storage. But if you want one, buy one. No one is stopping you.

 

[Electricfan]

To me, this design flaw is part of the same arrogance that gave us poor cup holders (under my elbow? really?), poor sun visors, no storage, no grab handles, and all the other annoyances that have been written about so much. The designers valued their "look" so much that they sacrificed the consumer's convenience. Silly. Rude, really.

P

No, I'm too old and my back won't put up with changing a tire right now, so I don't need a spare in my Model S.

(This is pro-Tesla post. I've been accused of liking to criticize Tesla, but its not true. I just call 'em like I see 'em)

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Have you also considered that by putting spare tire in the frunk you may be defeating crumple zones that make Tesla S such a safe car?

Wheels are mostly air, and the metal parts are designed to crumple before a heavy blow can damage suspension components. Putting a wheel in the frunk will affect the crash worthiness of the Model S precisely 0.