Anyone tested S/X CHAdeMO Adapter on Model 3

[Ulmo]

I tried again on EVgo and no go, I turned the Model 3 off, and the EVSE shook hands and when it starts to charge, you hear a click as if a fuse is going off at the connector and the charge fails. Going to submit a ticket, I wonder if the Adaptor is faulty.

Fred

Often I'd have to try different combinations about 20 or so times, sometimes even including a call to EVgo, since they can hand-hold you through half a dozen or a dozen tries with different combinations and it can be more fruitful than just doing it using the self-serve function since the EVgo customer service support people actually have more options than you do at the EVgo station yourself (or at least it was that way in 2017). Of course, then, you have to make an annoying phone call and maybe drop your $1,500 cell phone while fumbling around with everything. Just pointing out some options.

 

[Ulmo]

You generally just can't, though. Sure, that looks wonderful in Tesla's photo, but it's nearly impossible to get it to do that in real life. (Probably had someone just off camera holding it like that) It really would have been better if Tesla had built it with that half twist. The CHAdeMO handles are built to plug straight forward into a car, right? So the cable from the handle turns to a down angle, like a 90 degree bend. Now with the Tesla adapter in the Tesla car, the weight of the adapter makes it hang downward already (90 degree bend). So then if a CHAdeMO cable is plugging upward into that adapter that same way, it has another 90 degree bend continuing around the same circle, so the cable would be going through the rim of your wheel! The cable obviously is coming from exactly the opposite direction, from outside of your car, so it has to do a U-turn somehow, and about the only way it can do that is to twist the cable to make the double 90 degree bend into a straight path.

Exactly. It's a bad design. The CHAdeMO should have been designed with a sort of L at the bottom. Oh well! Each visit will give you a new experience. Don't get too specific about how it looks -- just try to tuck the cable out of tripping range so people don't get hurt, find some way to flop it so it doesn't damage the car or adapter, and it stays charging, and then go about your day. Since it's often nice to drape the charging plug over or onto the side of your car, this is one good reason to have good wrap protection on those areas of your car (trunk, charging side, frunk, roof, mirrors, etc.). But as always, maybe the CHAdeMO sites you visit don't have that issue. It's very case dependent.

 

[Ulmo]

BENCHMARK PLAN

I'll make three loops doing: SuperCharger, Electrify America, and EVgo. I'll leave Huntsville with a 15% SOC (36 mi) reserve and drive to Chattanooga, to normalize the SR+M3. There I will charge enough to have a 15% reserve (36 mi) to the same charger network in Nashville. Finally I'll charge to reach the free, CHAdeMO/CCS charger in Huntsville before heading home.

The goals:

1. Cost of each SuperCharger, CHAdeMO via Electrify America, and CHAdeMO via EVgo.
2. Charging profile at each network, the charge as a function of time recorded using "Time Lapse"

There is an Athens AL SuperCharger but it isn't clear we gain anything as I've already got a Nashville-to-Athens benchmark and a full SuperCharger record. However, there has been a suggestion that since my last video recording of a full charge, the SuperCharger profile may have changed. I will monitor and decide on the way back if another, full charge session is needed.

INITIAL TESTING

I borrowed a CHAdeMO adapter and went to the local, free CCS-1/CHAdeMO charging station to make sure everything works:

Past experience with my BMW i3-REx revealed we never get more than 100A from this unit. So the actual kW is driven by the battery battery voltage until the taper begins to reduce the current.

My first test, dangled the adapter and cable but it shutdown in a few minutes:

I suspect the tension on the adapter-cable or the heavy torque on the Tesla port cause a momentary, electrical problem triggering the abort.

Initial charging rate is consistent with the SOC of the Tesla:

After the abort, I draped the CHAdeMO adapter and cable over the back of the car and there were no more interruptions:

It looks like a strap from inside the car out the rear glass could hold the adapter and cable up to offload the mechanical stress on the connectors. I'll do some experiments.

To protect the paint, a blanket or throw rug might keep the cable from direct contact with the car:

However, I could try parking on the wrong side of the street so the cable does not stretch across the car.

As the charge tapered down, the voltage was higher but the current significantly smaller, about half the initial value:

Bob Wilson

Great examples.

You reminded me: one of the millions of things I tried was seating the CHAdeMO plug into the adapter REALLY WELL. Sometimes with a bit of a hammering. I got to cleaning out the plugs a bit on the outside to take off grime. This turned out to actually help. I don't know if that's just because that was in dusty farm areas.

 

[Ulmo]

It has nothing to do with profits. It's because the station is limited to 120 amps at whatever your pack voltage is. So charging may start lower, and gradually rise as the pack voltage rises during the charge.

40 kW / 14% - voltage around 333V and 120A.
42 kW / 26% - voltage around 350V and 120A.
44 kW / 41% - voltage around 367V and 120A

This phenomenon is related to the station being primarily current limited. You can only draw a maximum of 120A on most stations (some equipment may be limited to 100A). Of course as the battery reaches full charge, current will reduce as part of the taper.

Yes, and also the 125Amp limit of the CHAdeMO adapter itself, just in case the station can go higher than 120Amps.

 

[Ulmo]

FWIW-I never got charged for my session at an EA CHAdeMO even though I put in my credit card.

Those 3rd party charging networks are notoriously anti-consumer when it comes to their banking back ends. Don't expect modern banking efficiency with those companies. The charge could show up on your credit card as if it was sent in on paper a week later.

 

[Ulmo]

I'm providing this link to the CHAdeMO teardown by @wk057, in case anybody new to Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter is curious to know what's inside that thing.

CHAdeMO Adapter Tear Down

 

[jbcarioca]

...
Since letting the CHAdeMO adapter hang obviously wears out the adapter and the Tesla car charging socket, I advise people to put a stand underneath the hanging adapter, such as a cardboard box. I used to keep one in my trunk next to my CHAdeMO adapter just for this reason. I'd recycle it and get a new one every few months since they would inevitably collect dirt from the ground...

There are also a variety of durable plastic boxes that fold when not in use, I am now 5000 miles southwest of my car so I cannot make a photo of my box nor do I recall the brand. That box I keep in my frunk with the CHAdeMO adapter. Years ago with my S it was a major convenience, and still is, since I can also use to unload heavy stuff since it has wheels and an extendible handle. For holding up the CHAdeMO to reduce pressure on teh conenction such boxes are a handy solution. I have also found many CHAdeMO chargers, especially the ABB ones IME, tend to have substantial bollards aroudn them to protect from damage. Those bollards often are ideally positioned to act as a tand to support a CHAdeMO adapter.

In 'olden times' back when CHAdeMO was the fastest charging around and Superchargers were a distant dream most Model S (no Model X then) owners I knew had some sort of support for their CHAdeMO adapter. Now we'll relearn our old techniques for Model 3. Luckily the Model 3 frunk seems to be more usable than the one for my P85DL.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Almost but not quite. They have all three limits. The power (kW) limit is often an aggregate limit in the station from the utility, utility connection, utility cost structure, utility transformer, utility supply, or utility market rate dynamics. Add in there occasional possibilities like power being added in by batteries and solar panels that gets counted for that site, and power can be a limiting factor in addition to volts and amps. So, all three can limit. But, it is true that usually the power limit is not in the direct AC-DC converter charger you are plugged in to, but as a load balancing limit imposed on the site from the external factors I described. It can be experienced in a number of ways.

Those three limits are in ADDITION to whatever limits your car battery BMS has: pack too cold, too hot, too much chemistry stress, ramping, DC charge counter limiting, etc. Since the Tesla CHAdeMO 125Amp limit is so limiting, you almost never run into those car battery BMS slowdown issues with the 125 Amp CHAdeMO adapter, but those limitations are also still there nevertheless.

Well, yes, but not “almost”, re-read what I said... I said the station’s power limit doesn’t stand alone.

And ya, there are other car/battery/BMS limits, and input limits to the station based on the transformers and other equipment on site, and the utility, but in terms of the charge station itself (the physical stall you are using), there’s a power limit AND a voltage AND a current limit.

If someone doesn’t understand this, and it is at a nice cool, deserted station, at 20C temperature with nobody having used the stall all day, they can easily be confused by their car not pulling the advertised max “power” when they don’t realize it’s because they’ve already hit the max current and the voltage is necessarily lower than max due to their current SoC.

Around these parts there are a lot single-car DCFC stations with dual heads. There’s no confusion about power sharing with the stall next to you as at V2 Superchargers, or anything else. People see 50 kW on the station, and 42 kW in the car and think “what’s wrong with this station, I get over 70 kW at a 150 kW station??”

 

[darth_vad3r]

Anything that works would be the best way to do it.

Well, except then you suggest some preferred methods, so ... there are “better” ways to avoid wear

Since letting the CHAdeMO adapter hang obviously wears out the adapter and the Tesla car charging socket, I advise people to put a stand underneath the hanging adapter, such as a cardboard box.

Ya, that’s good.

this isn't totally necessary, but it just seems to make sense to me.

That was my point as well abiut trying to mimic Tesla’s photo if possible. Not necessary, but should be the goal to avoid wear from the twist and the weight:

What I would do when I didn't have the cardboard box is kind of push the station plug up a bit using the friction of the cord dragging on the ground to hold it a little upward, putting less pressure on the adapter and car socket. You can push it up about an inch and a half and the rubber will hold it up a bit. Of course, if it slides back down, it will yank hard on everything, making the situation worse than carefully dangling it to begin with, so I preferred to push it up only half an inch or so as a result. Maybe that's OCD, but I've seen lots of socket failures on other electronics.

Yes, lacking a box, this would seem to duplicate the Tesla product photo the closest.

 

[Rocky_H]

If someone doesn’t understand this, and it is at a nice cool, deserted station, at 20C temperature with nobody having used the stall all day, they can easily be confused by their car not pulling the advertised max “power” when they don’t realize it’s because they’ve already hit the max current and the voltage is necessarily lower than max due to their current SoC.

My bold added. I don't think it ever works that way. The battery needs whatever voltage it needs at that moment to charge it. If it is cold and needs to limit power, I think it always limits by a lower current, not a lower voltage.

 

[bwilson4web]

Sorry, posted my first test results here: CHAdeMO Charging the Model 3

Rather than double post, I'll just leave a link here.

Bob Wilson

 

[darth_vad3r]

My bold added. I don't think it ever works that way. The battery needs whatever voltage it needs at that moment to charge it. If it is cold and needs to limit power, I think it always limits by a lower current, not a lower voltage.

I didn’t say cold. 20C is room temperature. I was just setting a scenario where something being “too hot” to start with could be ruled out for a reason for “too low power” versus what someone is expecting from a DCFC.

The battery needing whatever voltage at that moment to charge was precisely my point... low SoC = lower voltage. Higher SoC = higher voltage.

“I’m not getting my 50 kW gosh darnit!” (in comfy temperature conditions with no stall sharing issue, as I mentioned) = You’ve maxed out on current already, and you aren’t near needing max voltage yet, so you can’t get max power!

 

[Rocky_H]

@darth_vad3r Oooh, gotcha.

 

[zeelman]

If you want to try this out without buying an adapter - EVgo has a few locations where they provide a CHADEMO adapter which is tethered to the charging station. You can find them on their website: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations | EVgo using the "Has Tesla adapter" filter. So far only one location in the SF Bay area and 3 locations in the Los Angeles area have this adapter. I personally haven't tried them out yet.

 

[miimura]

Just for reference, the Northen California EVgo location listed with the Tesla adapter is at the Whole Foods on El Camino in Los Altos near the intersection of San Antonio Rd. on the Mountain View border.

 

[darth_vad3r]

If you want to try this out without buying an adapter - EVgo has a few locations where they provide a CHADEMO adapter which is tethered to the charging station. You can find them on their website: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations | EVgo using the "Has Tesla adapter" filter. So far only one location in the SF Bay area and 3 locations in the Los Angeles area have this adapter. I personally haven't tried them out yet.

Just for reference, the Northen California EVgo location listed with the Tesla adapter is at the Whole Foods on El Camino in Los Altos near the intersection of San Antonio Rd. on the Mountain View border.

This is the kind of thing local Tesla clubs (or heck, even Tesla themselves!) could fund. For probably $1k you can have one bought and “installed” in a secure manner such that any Tesla owner could use an adapter so outfitted.

If you have a thousand local Tesla owners it’s $1 per owner per station to outfit.
For a club you’d maybe need to round up 50-100 people willing to give $10-20 per station... then maybe you can advertise it and say it’s for club use only, please join the club and pay a $20 join fee used to fund more things like this.

 

[AEdennis]

This is the kind of thing local Tesla clubs (or heck, even Tesla themselves!) could fund. For probably $1k you can have one bought and “installed” in a secure manner such that any Tesla owner could use an adapter so outfitted.

If you have a thousand local Tesla owners it’s $1 per owner per station to outfit.
For a club you’d maybe need to round up 50-100 people willing to give $10-20 per station... then maybe you can advertise it and say it’s for club use only, please join the club and pay a $20 join fee used to fund more things like this.

Some of the clubs already do this...

It depends on how the club is formed and founded...

 

[GHammer]

Works on Webasto (Aerovironment West Coast Electric Highway).

 

[Rocky_H]

Works on Webasto (Aerovironment West Coast Electric Highway).

That name change is so horrible.
"The artist formerly known as Aerovironment" Who's with me?

 

[wenkan]

Works on Webasto (Aerovironment West Coast Electric Highway).View attachment 435799

Tap key obviously not working, have to use plugshare to start charging. Every interruption cost me extra $7.5 is bad.