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AP 2.0 Bait and Switch?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Mike's X, Jan 9, 2017.

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  1. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    I am new to this form, and would like to share my perspective. My good friend has a model S with autopilot 1.0. All he ever does is talk about how wonderful it was in terms of navigating rush-hour traffic. I live in Southern California, and my wife and I thought this would be a great option for us. For my wife, autosteer wasn’t important but lane departure warning, emergency braking, and other features including summon and autopark were deal makers for both of us.

    My wife and I went to the San Diego fashion valley store in June 2016, and were given a test drive of a Model X, including ALL of the AP 1.0 features – summon, autosteer, and autopark included. Also, we did the autopilot traffic aware cruise control and other great stuff on the highway. This experience was the determining factor for my wife and I to acquire the vehicle. Additionally all the great safety features that were present on that test drive including lane change warning an automatic braking made it a no-brainer for us.

    The order was finalized July 2016. In the meantime, shortly after the vehicle order was placed P100D was offered, and Tesla offered us the chance to upgrade. What they did NOT tell us was that we would also get the AP 2.0 “upgrade.” As vehicle delivery approached, we were told that we had the fabulous new AP 2.0 sensors, but again, they failed to tell us NONE of it was usable or working on the car.

    On Dec 23 we took delivery as required in the contract. If we did not, we would have forfeited deposit as liquidated damages. We found out on Dec 22 that AP 2.0 was NOT working at all. So when we came in to get the car, we were then told Elon says it should be out by the end of the week, and they showed us his tweet.

    I will say that quality assurance on the car was dubious as the charge port door kept opening on its own during delivery and a red triangle showed up on the dash stating “REPLACE CHARGE PORT DOOR.” Not a confidence builder. But they promised yet again that the AP 2.0 features, in their entirety would active by the end of the week and offered another 1 hour session to go over them.

    Well, here we are nearly three weeks later – NO FEATURES OF AP 2.0 whatsoever. I will say that this is a BAIT AND SWITCH in the classic definition – see code of federal regulations chapter 16, part 238, paragraph 4. Also in California it is illegal under B&P 17500. I don’t want this car anymore and I suspect hundreds of “early adopters” feel the same way.


    To boot, I had an error code while loading the kids and trying to back out the driveway. The distracting yellow triangle was telling me the passenger door failed to latch, while a red triangle in the center cluster was alarming about a backseat not being latched (5 seater). In the meantime, the horrible GUI with a camera displaying the rear with tire lines but no outline of the vehicle was in the center display, while in the instrument cluster the radar obstruction detection information was displayed. You guessed it, this resulted in me hitting my sister in laws parked rental vehicle. The body shop wants 15K to fix a 2 inch dent. None of this would have happened if the front door latch wasn't defective (needed replacement), the GUI would for reversing was as good as 20K POS KIA SUV from 4 years ago (display the stupid foot print of the vehicle???? is that so hard?), and yes summon and auto park were active.

    I did get a great xmas show, but that stuff is completely useless, perhaps the software engineers should be working on writing useful software - like making the car work the way it was promised and sold, rather than stupid easter eggs.

    I don't know about others, but I want out, NOW. Elon sold us Steve Jobs NEXT computer with absolutely NO SOFTWARE. The car is useless and THEY DON’T have software for it. I did not sign up to be an alpha tester either. I am so disappointed! The guy lives in a reality distortion field.
     
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  2. pilotSteve

    pilotSteve Member

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    Whoa. I'm waiting (impatiently) for my EAP/AP2 to activate too, but come on! A "few days" from now it will be activated. Chill out dude!
     
    • Like x 3
  3. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    If you backed into another vehicle you have no one to blame but yourself.
     
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  4. HumanGenome

    HumanGenome Member

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    TeslaWhinersClub
     
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  5. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    You guys are a bunch of fanboys- the car was promised and ordered with options. NONE are in the car. Didn't sign up to be an alpha or a beta tester. Not whining, just not right. If this is the culture, wait till Elon tries to roll out hundreds of thousands of cars.
     
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  6. kdday

    kdday Member

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    Pause. Take a breath. You'll be fine.

    I'm also waiting for my AP 2.0 features to start working whenever they decide to release them. It's not fun to wait, but wait we must.

    The car isn't worthless. Especially if you have a P100D. You have the quickest production car on the planet. You can travel faster than all the kings of the earth that ever have been.

    Just be level header and let Tesla know you're unhappy with the way they marketed. I agree it wasn't handled well but I love driving my S60
     
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  7. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    Agreed it wasn't marketed well but do you really want AP1.0 over AP2.0?

    Blaming the accident on Tesla is going too far in my opinion.
     
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  8. MTOman

    MTOman Member

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    On the plus side you can sell it now for only a measly 20% depreciation hit! :D

    Jk, sorry to hear you're disappointed. It does suck when software doesn't arrive exactly when promised on Twitter, especially when lack of said software forces you to hit a stationary rental car, but the overlords assure us our patience is worth it. Don't lose faith, brother.

    Also, take solace in the fact that your alpha testing AP2 will help countless others avoid the torture you're currently enduring. For that you are my personal hero.
     
  9. Gwgan

    Gwgan Almost a wagon

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    I loved my NeXT computer and the cutting edge software that came with it, buggy and incompatible as it was. Buying a premium vehicle based on a tweet and a promise is in a whole other league but the analogy is a good one. It's been a common theme that the sales staff is not doing a good job of explaining the transition to AP 2.0, (NeXTSTEP jumpshift to OpenStep), please do make your experience known to Tesla and not just here. If you were truly surprised by the lack of features, and ask nicely, you may actually be able to back out even though the happiness guarantee is no longer offered. As for the accident, that is unfortunate but you can't blame the limited camera view for that one.
     
  10. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Owners paid for autopilot since 2014 and it wasn't activated until a year later.

    And when it was activated, it is still now progressing gradually for a goal of Hands-free On-Ramp to Off-Ramp in a near future.

    It is a bait alright because the promised feature wouldn't be available during the purchase.

    About "switch", Tesla will fulfill its promise for what you paid for but you need patience.

    In the mean time, if you read Tesla Owners Manual, it says NEVER depend on its technology to avoid an accident. The primary operator is human, not automation even when Autopilot is perfected.

    You might depend too much on technology which might contribute to an accident.
     
  11. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    Too true on it being my fault - yes I hit the parked car - but the GUI is awful -- on my porsche cayenne the entire screen becomes the camera, the outline of the car appears on the screen showing both the sensor data and the foot print of the car. Oh ya, and theres are real gear shift lever, and other alarms are not distracting.

    With respect to bait and switch, here is the US federal definition.

    § 238.4 Switch after sale.
    No practice should be pursued by an advertiser, in the event of sale of the advertised product, of “unselling” with the intent and purpose of selling other merchandise in its stead. Among acts or practices which will be considered in determining if the initial sale was in good faith, and not a strategem to sell other merchandise, are:

    (a) Accepting a deposit for the advertised product, then switching the purchaser to a higher-priced product,

    (b) Failure to make delivery of the advertised product within a reasonable time or to make a refund,

    (c) Disparagement by acts or words of the advertised product, or the disparagement of the guarantee, credit terms, availability of service, repairs, or in any other respect, in connection with it,

    (d) The delivery of the advertised product which is defective, unusable or impractical for the purpose represented or implied in the advertisement. [Guide 4]

    Section D is the relevant one -

    I suspect NON Tesla fanboys and girls on a jury would agree that the car was promised (i.e. the contract) to have 12 life and safety features and was delivered with none of them at delivery.
     
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  12. dmd2005

    dmd2005 Member

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    How much do you want for your X?
     
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  13. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    You can assume the lease and give me 5K for my initial deposit and acquisition fee. I really really DONT want it, and am cancelling my Model 3 order and the power wall.
     
  14. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    First payment due January 23.
     
  15. azred

    azred Member

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    Ever wonder why some people are irritated by self-entitled folks that have a few bucks in the bank? Exhibit A.
     
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  16. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    #16 Canuck, Jan 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
    I think you will have real trouble establishing bad faith as required by the legislation. That's no excuse for the way Tesla marketed it but the test for bad faith is a difficult one, especially given the disclaimers on the website when you ordered, and multiple other explanations other than bad faith. To me it's caveat emptor.

    But go for it. I'll be making popcorn and watching with interest. But something tells me you're more smoke than fire.
     
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  17. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    Nope no disclaimers when I ordered it - it said available and my contract said the features would be in the car. They are not.
     
  18. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Tesla is selling its driverless option now but it is "unusable or impractical" for an undetermined future until Tesla will activate it.

    Tesla will do a demonstration of driverless cross country in less than 12 months but its supplier Nvidia expects driverless option will rollout in 2020.

    I am sorry that you feel that Autopilot and Driverless technology should be available right now but the truth is: it evolves gradually since 2014 and there is no crystal ball to predict when it'll be perfected.

    The jury will have to decide whether you bought

    1) a promise that will be incrementally fulfilled in an undetermined future or
    2) a technology that has been proven by car reviews with traffic cone tests as well as cross country tests...
     
  19. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    1) n. intentional dishonest act by not fulfilling legal or contractual obligations, misleading another, entering into an agreementwithout the intention or means to fulfill it, or violating basic standards of honesty in dealing with others. Most states recognizewhat is called "implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing" which is breached by acts of bad faith, for which a lawsuit maybe brought (filed) for the breach (just as one might sue for breach of contract). The question of bad faith may be raised as adefense to a suit on a contract. 2) adj. when there is bad faith then a transaction is called a "bad faith" contract or "bad faith"offer. (See: good faith, fraud, clean hands doctrine)

    I suspect strongly that Tesla had to complete EOY sales to satisfy the investors, so they lied about what they were selling...Hence the bad faith
     
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  20. Mike's X

    Mike's X Member

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    the unusuable and/or impractical revolves around lane departure and side collision avoidance NOT hands free driving.
     

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