Not sure about that.
Spouses and moms are pretty good so I fail to see why a robot can't be just as effective.
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AP/FSD related crashes
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
Spouses and moms are pretty good so I fail to see why a robot can't be just as effective.
This is an odd crash. Car brakes briefly then swerves directly right into the side of the tunnel wall.
Nobody is claiming AP as far as I know, but I'm interested in any theories. Some have guessed it might simply be that the front suspension collapsed (whompy wheel) since you can see something appear under the car while it's turning.
However there are some interesting things. The tunnel does widen for a section just prior to the swerve, and the lines on the ground go from solid to dashed, why would the lines be dashed right there, maybe it's an emergency pull-out? Some people wonder if the reflection of brake lights on the wall might have created some kind of false road indication. Has anyone experienced false-road images from weird reflections in a tunnel?
Anyway it can't be FSD Beta as it's in China unless they moved a US car there. I guess I'm more leaning towards bad driver and/or mechanical malfunction, than AP crash.
Nobody is claiming AP as far as I know, but I'm interested in any theories. Some have guessed it might simply be that the front suspension collapsed (whompy wheel) since you can see something appear under the car while it's turning.
However there are some interesting things. The tunnel does widen for a section just prior to the swerve, and the lines on the ground go from solid to dashed, why would the lines be dashed right there, maybe it's an emergency pull-out? Some people wonder if the reflection of brake lights on the wall might have created some kind of false road indication. Has anyone experienced false-road images from weird reflections in a tunnel?
Anyway it can't be FSD Beta as it's in China unless they moved a US car there. I guess I'm more leaning towards bad driver and/or mechanical malfunction, than AP crash.
Does bring up an interesting point - if for some reason local municipalities set up a tunnel or other walled-in feature with highly reflective surfaces, how would cameras handle that? Obviously lidar and radar could tell those objects weren't real, but cameras may see it differently (like people having PBs with mirages).
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I’m curious what the walls of that tunnel are made of. I’ve never seen anything like that.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Maybe it’s a safety feature!
This is somehow exactly how I would expect tunnel walls to behave in China. I have personal experience with the floors in high rises there (they were squishy in places).
Scenic tunnel in China. They show videos of fish on the ceiling. I'm not saying these tunnels are dangerous exactly, just interesting challenges. At least the road lines can be followed.
Oh good, a t-intersection in a tunnel in Norway.
With lane merges, pull-off sections, concrete walls. 5.7km of 'death-trap' fun. Oh, I'm sure they are fine... The video looks like it was taken by a drunken Norwegian however.
Oh good, a t-intersection in a tunnel in Norway.
With lane merges, pull-off sections, concrete walls. 5.7km of 'death-trap' fun. Oh, I'm sure they are fine... The video looks like it was taken by a drunken Norwegian however.
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DanCar
Active Member
US probing automated driving system use in 2 Tesla crashes
The U.S. government’s highway safety agency says it's sending teams to investigate November crashes in California and Ohio involving Teslas that may have been operating on automated driving systems.
apnews.com
Thanks for posting this. Can you also post the results of the investigations from a year or more ago and let us know if AP or FSD was ultimately confirmed in those crashes? Otherwise this is all just FUD.The California crash occurred on Thanksgiving Day involving eight vehicles on the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. The driver told authorities that the Tesla Model S was using the company’s “Full Self-Driving” software, according to Highway Patrol report obtained by CNN.US probing automated driving system use in 2 Tesla crashes
The U.S. government’s highway safety agency says it's sending teams to investigate November crashes in California and Ohio involving Teslas that may have been operating on automated driving systems.
DanCar
Active Member
I'm posting what I find interesting in my news feed. Feel free to investigate and post the results yourself rather than asking others to do it.
I agree this more likely points to drivers using FSD as an excuse for an accident, rather than FSD doing something suboptimal, but still interesting.
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DanCar
Active Member
More FUD: https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/21/business/tesla-fsd-8-car-crash/index.html
A driver told authorities that their Tesla’s “full-self-driving” software braked unexpectedly and triggered an eight-car pileup in the San Francisco Bay Area last month that led to nine people being treated for minor injuries including one juvenile who was hospitalized, according to a California Highway Patrol traffic crash report.
arstechnica.com
A driver told authorities that their Tesla’s “full-self-driving” software braked unexpectedly and triggered an eight-car pileup in the San Francisco Bay Area last month that led to nine people being treated for minor injuries including one juvenile who was hospitalized, according to a California Highway Patrol traffic crash report.
Eight-car Thanksgiving pileup blamed on Tesla “Full Self-Driving” software
California Highway Patrol say only Tesla knows if the system was active.
arstechnica.com
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DanCar
Active Member
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
More FUD: https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/21/business/tesla-fsd-8-car-crash/index.html
A driver told authorities that their Tesla’s “full-self-driving” software braked unexpectedly and triggered an eight-car pileup in the San Francisco Bay Area last month that led to nine people being treated for minor injuries including one juvenile who was hospitalized, according to a California Highway Patrol traffic crash report.
Eight-car Thanksgiving pileup blamed on Tesla “Full Self-Driving” software
California Highway Patrol say only Tesla knows if the system was active.
Sounds like the CHP confirmed this was on the driver.
Anyway FSD definitely has the strong tendency to put you in situations which you would not otherwise be in. Seems like it makes things less safe to me, assuming you are an attentive driver. If you like to use your phone while driving, or you like to drive drunk, FSD might make you more safe.
Just be careful out there. Drive the car. That’s why we have FSD, so that we can Fully Self Drive.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Video of how the crash happened. Ignore the title, there was no evidence presented that FSD was on other than driver claiming it was:More FUD: https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/21/business/tesla-fsd-8-car-crash/index.html
A driver told authorities that their Tesla’s “full-self-driving” software braked unexpectedly and triggered an eight-car pileup in the San Francisco Bay Area last month that led to nine people being treated for minor injuries including one juvenile who was hospitalized, according to a California Highway Patrol traffic crash report.
Eight-car Thanksgiving pileup blamed on Tesla “Full Self-Driving” software
California Highway Patrol say only Tesla knows if the system was active.
Watch Tesla FSD Cause an Eight-Car Pile-Up the Same Day Musk Made it Available to Everyone
The crash on the San Francisco Bay Bridge sent nine people to the hospital just hours after Musk opened the "Full Self-Driving Beta" to all Tesla owners.
jalopnik.com
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Video of how the crash happened. Ignore the title, there was no evidence presented that FSD was on other than driver claiming it was:
Watch Tesla FSD Cause an Eight-Car Pile-Up the Same Day Musk Made it Available to Everyone
The crash on the San Francisco Bay Bridge sent nine people to the hospital just hours after Musk opened the "Full Self-Driving Beta" to all Tesla owners.
I have a hard time understanding the behavior of this vehicle otherwise. Unless the driver just went to sleep. It is also possible the driver thought FSD was engaged but it was not.
But as you can tell from reading MANY posts here, it is very very normal for FSD users to allow their vehicles to come to a halt in traffic. It appears to be standard operating procedure (and is usually accompanied by the posters saying “the car came to a halt in the middle of the road” etc. rather than “I brought the car to a halt in the middle of the road”).
I don’t know why, but it is normal behavior. Quite bizarre.
Always be disengaging. Foot on accelerator, both hands on wheel.
maybe the driver (from some odd reason) thought that FSD was safer than a human, and then trusted the FSD based on that assumption? And no, I have NO idea where the driver would have gotten that assumption from...
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Maybe. I think it is funny that the driver of V-2 was not so honest about hitting the Tesla in any case.
“. P-2 applied V-2’s brakes and V-2 came to a stop. V-2 got hit from behind and was pushed forward and into the rear of V-1. ”
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
My understanding is FSD does not activate in closed access roads like on that bridge (anyone with FSD Beta able to chime in?). AP could have been on however, but it seems quite rare for it to come to a complete stop like in the video. Even with phantom braking, it slows down, but not to a complete stop.
People are known to blame anything but themselves when an accident happens, as you pointed out even just in the post above. So I am not surprised if drivers blame FSD or AP even if they were not on.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
That is nearly certainly true that FSD Beta (Autosteer on City Streets component) was not active. Should not be possible here.
But the Autosteer/NOA portion of the FSD package may have been. (For a certain purchase time window automatic lane change was not available without purchasing FSD.)
I can see for end users the terminology could be confusing.
I don’t know why the report mentions v11 unless this was an employee vehicle. I guess that is the other possibility (in which case FSD Beta could have been active). But seems pretty unlikely.
I think AP could come to a stop if it detected an obstacle ahead. But my guess is it was disengaged (possibly accidentally).
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