AP/FSD related crashes

[Daniel in SD]

Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths

When it was time to react, often it was too late.

www.theverge.com

Hundreds of crashes and some deaths linked to driver inattention.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2022/INCR-EA22002-14496.pdf

In the Warrenton Virginia crash the driver was going 70mph in a 45mph zone. I wonder how that's possible with FSD enabled?

Reckless driving charge dropped in crash that killed Teodoro

A reckless driving charge against the driver in the July crash that killed well-known Warrenton businessman Pablo Teodoro has been dropped at the recommendation of the Fauquier County Sheriff’s Office.

www.fauquiernow.com

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I wonder how that's possible with FSD enabled?

With FSD v11 (this was July 2023?) you could go very high over the limit. The automatic offset is limited to 30% over the limit. But I think you can dial higher.

I'm not sure exactly what the limit is for this. I assume there's some sort of limit but I've never encountered one. I'll have to try it out I guess?

Just another link to the WaPo empty content hit piece here. I have to say the video of the drunk going the wrong way definitely does not look like AP or FSD is engaged. I would think Tesla has the records of this?

https://wapo.st/4aW7cFG

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I wonder how that's possible with FSD enabled?

With FSD v11 (this was July 2023?) you could go very high over the limit. The automatic offset is limited to 30% over the limit. But I think you can dial higher.

Seems plausible with v11. Might depend on mapping. Going 70 in a 45 is possible (sometimes) with v12. It depends on the road. I don't know how this worked exactly with v11 but I think (guess) in a more rural area it would not be an issue.

 

[cdotyii]

I am looking for information on incidents involving Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) mode. I have owned my Tesla for less than a year, and within the last six months, it has twice attempted to drive directly into a passing train while in FSD mode. The most recent incident occurred on May 8, 2024, and I have dash cam footage from that event.

I am trying to obtain the telemetry data from these incidents. Additionally, I am looking for similar cases or incidents. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lawyer willing to take my case due to the lack of significant injuries—only backaches and a deep bruise on my right elbow, which didn’t require medical attention.

I attempted to upload the dash cam footage but was unsuccessful. Any guidance or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dashcam Vids

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Any guidance or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

I am glad no one was seriously hurt.

You are fully responsible as the driver when FSD is engaged.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I am glad no one was seriously hurt.

You are fully responsible as the driver when FSD is engaged.

I'm pretty sure cdotyii was asking for guidance and assistance in how to upload and share a video.

It is not useful guidance and assistance to remind them they are responsible for the actions of the car.

 

[Tam]

I am looking for information on incidents involving Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) mode. I have owned my Tesla for less than a year, and within the last six months, it has twice attempted to drive directly into a passing train while in FSD mode. The most recent incident occurred on May 8, 2024, and I have dash cam footage from that event.

I am trying to obtain the telemetry data from these incidents. Additionally, I am looking for similar cases or incidents. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lawyer willing to take my case due to the lack of significant injuries—only backaches and a deep bruise on my right elbow, which didn’t require medical attention.

I attempted to upload the dash cam footage but was unsuccessful. Any guidance or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dashcam Vids

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Your link to the video works fine.

This forum allows picture uploads but not video uploads. For video, you upload it first to some where else like dropbox, YouTube then post the link here.

Jurors have consistently favored Tesla in past Autopilot cases citing the inattentiveness of drivers, not the design faults.

In the last case that the driver was definitely inattentive with cellphone video games, Tesla settled it. No one knows why especially when Tesla was on a winning streak legally. Perhaps, it's because of better lawyers who were doing a lot of work in getting Tesla engineers to explain how the design could contribute to accidents because of the ineffective system of preventing inattentiveness.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm pretty sure cdotyii was asking for guidance and assistance in how to upload and share a video.

It is not useful guidance and assistance to remind them they are responsible for the actions of the car.

Perhaps reread the entire post and not just what I quoted.

 

[DanCar]

I'm pretty sure cdotyii was asking for guidance and assistance in how to upload and share a video.

It is not useful guidance and assistance to remind them they are responsible for the actions of the car.

Why is not useful guidance to remind they are responsible for the car?
> I haven't been able to find a lawyer willing to take my case
That statement suggests they lack that info.

 

[Daniel in SD]

It has twice attempted to drive directly into a passing train while in FSD mode.

I would strongly suggest not trying a third time. I feel like your case would be stronger if you didn’t say it was the second time. Did you crash the first time too?
Anyway this is a well known issue and there is a warning in the manual.

 

[vinvango]

"Stupid is as stupid does."
-Forrest Gump

 

[Huskyf]

I am looking for information on incidents involving Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) mode. I have owned my Tesla for less than a year, and within the last six months, it has twice attempted to drive directly into a passing train while in FSD mode. The most recent incident occurred on May 8, 2024, and I have dash cam footage from that event.

I am trying to obtain the telemetry data from these incidents. Additionally, I am looking for similar cases or incidents. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lawyer willing to take my case due to the lack of significant injuries—only backaches and a deep bruise on my right elbow, which didn’t require medical attention.

I attempted to upload the dash cam footage but was unsuccessful. Any guidance or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dashcam Vids

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

This not what can prove is on autopilot and they have plenty of time to stop the car before reaching the train signal and it’s not a normal move of autopilot

They have 7 sec to stop the car and make a decision the slow but nothing where is driver at this moment on is phone ????

 

[DarkandStormy]

I am looking for information on incidents involving Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) mode. I have owned my Tesla for less than a year, and within the last six months, it has twice attempted to drive directly into a passing train while in FSD mode. The most recent incident occurred on May 8, 2024, and I have dash cam footage from that event.

I am trying to obtain the telemetry data from these incidents. Additionally, I am looking for similar cases or incidents. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lawyer willing to take my case due to the lack of significant injuries—only backaches and a deep bruise on my right elbow, which didn’t require medical attention.

I attempted to upload the dash cam footage but was unsuccessful. Any guidance or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dashcam Vids

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Looks like you also suffered from the suspension issue that plagues so many Teslas.

 

[ThunderStrike]

I am looking for information on incidents involving Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) mode. I have owned my Tesla for less than a year, and within the last six months, it has twice attempted to drive directly into a passing train while in FSD mode. The most recent incident occurred on May 8, 2024, and I have dash cam footage from that event.

I am trying to obtain the telemetry data from these incidents. Additionally, I am looking for similar cases or incidents. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lawyer willing to take my case due to the lack of significant injuries—only backaches and a deep bruise on my right elbow, which didn’t require medical attention.

I attempted to upload the dash cam footage but was unsuccessful. Any guidance or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dashcam Vids

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Sad but how are we sure this was FSD and not AP?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hard to tell with the heavy tint, but looks possible that this doesn’t qualify as an accident.

 

[willow_hiller]

Sad but how are we sure this was FSD and not AP?

Seriously. FSD Supervised on my car won't even cross train tracks when traffic is backed up ahead. It will wait on the safe side of the tracks for traffic to clear.

The video also seems to show OP driving way faster than I can imagine FSDS would choose to drive by default. If it really is true that they observed their car fail to acknowledge this train crossing twice, and then commanded their car to excessively speed toward the crossing in dense fog, this sounds more like attempted insurance fraud than an accident. No wonder lawyers won't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

 

[ochompsky]

it should have absolutely seen that coming, the flashing lights, fog or not.

that being said, how on earth did you react so late?! were you waiting to see if it would stop or did you not notice until the last minute?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Seriously. FSD Supervised on my car won't even cross train tracks when traffic is backed up ahead. It will wait on the safe side of the tracks for traffic to clear.

The video also seems to show OP driving way faster than I can imagine FSDS would choose to drive by default. If it really is true that they observed their car fail to acknowledge this train crossing twice, and then commanded their car to excessively speed toward the crossing in dense fog, this sounds more like attempted insurance fraud than an accident. No wonder lawyers won't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

Remember people refer to AP as FSD.

But in any case remember your personal experience with FSDS barely scratches the surface of possible outcomes. Occurred (potentially) in the free trial period which makes FSD(S) slightly more likely.

I personally would guess it was Autosteer (Beta), but it could also have been FSD(S). I’m not sure it matters - Autosteer (Beta) arguably shouldn’t do this either - or it should not be permitted to be used there.

Obviously the driver is fully responsible and this was caused by inattention and/or negligence.

 

[ddb1001]

I am looking for information on incidents involving Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) mode. I have owned my Tesla for less than a year, and within the last six months, it has twice attempted to drive directly into a passing train while in FSD mode. The most recent incident occurred on May 8, 2024, and I have dash cam footage from that event.

I am trying to obtain the telemetry data from these incidents. Additionally, I am looking for similar cases or incidents. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lawyer willing to take my case due to the lack of significant injuries—only backaches and a deep bruise on my right elbow, which didn’t require medical attention.

I attempted to upload the dash cam footage but was unsuccessful. Any guidance or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dashcam Vids

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Check out this lawsuit and other similar ones. Many have almost died / died while using FSD / AP .. Tesla can no longer use "it's the driver's fault" as a defense for all cases.

Tesla must face vehicle owners' lawsuit over self-driving claims:

https://www.reuters.com/legal/tesla-must-face-vehicle-owners-lawsuit-over-self-driving-claims-2024-05-15/

 

[cdotyii]

Anyway this is a well known issue and there is a warning in the manual.

Could you point me to the specific warning in the manual? I understand that as the driver, I'm ultimately responsible for the vehicle. However, my issue lies with the FSD system's failure to recognize the train. I was attentive and aware during the incident. I expected the system to brake for the train, as it should, based on previous experience where the FSD system is typically more cautious than a regular driver in many situations.

After using the FSD system for a while, you tend to trust it to perform correctly, much like you would with adaptive cruise control. You assume the vehicle will slow down when approaching a slower car in front, until it doesn’t, and you’re suddenly forced to take control. This complacency can build up over time due to the system usually performing as expected, making incidents like this particularly concerning.